E-Tools vs. PCGen

[kingpaul]

If I have understood Paul correctly from a few threads, PCGen has some of the functionality but skills, feats and equipment still all need to be done by hand (I wonder about spell lists as well? I don't know) .

No, we don't have an auto-build NPC feature. Its something that we've bandied about doing, but haven't implemented yet. If you want to create an NPC, you'll need to create from scratch. Add the levels, add the feats, add the skills, add the equipment and add the prepared spells.

PCGen on the other hand is a moving target and seems someone is always working on it and even some reports that in the last few updates recently there have been some speed improvements.

Yep, the code monkeys are always working on the code. There have been speed improvements over the last several alpha releases. 5.10 is faster than 5.8, which was faster than 5.6.

If you are willing to take some time, you may want to look at a third option. There are some other really decent d20 based programs available that allow you to create your own data, then you can put the IP protected data in yourself and have a decent program.

Off the top of my head, I know there's DMGenie, RPGXplorer, Crystal Ball (Mac only) and Red Blade. I'm sure there are other character generators out there.

 

[kingpaul]

So I wonder how long until eTools really gets abandonware.

No one outside of the CMP inner circle knows.

I realize that PCGen is developped as a freeware on sourceforge.net (a site exclusively for free software projects). It needs Java in order to run, so I guess that it is written in Java, too.

Yes it is.

I appreciate its usability on non-Windows PCs, I like that it is already "front loaded" with SRD content, but when I installed it one year ago, it was pretty slow on my pc, too. Worse, the handling wasn't that easy, and I was missing official WotC rule information (which isn't available for free for sure).

Well, the program has seen speed increases over the last year. However, if you want official WotC datasets (that you don't have to do yourself), you'll need to go to CMP and buy them. You can always create the datasets for your own personal use.

When I had a look at CMP, I realized that they offer rule sets for both programmes (for the same price each). Unfortunately both programmes seem to meet problems now and again: some rules aren't realized correctly in either programme (-> have a look at their forums, there are quite many contributions for both programmes, I guess this is the reason for the free updates, btw.). I guess that developping an eTool successor is their attempt to create a software that doesn't need as many fixes.

That's the problem with game designers, always tweaking how rules work so its hard to keep programs up with them.

But seriously, I know that we at PCGen try to keep up with the evolving mechanics.

eTools was originally created by Fluid for 3.0 rules. CMP inherited the code base, and they've been trying to cram as much functionality into it as possible. Creating RPGT is an attempt to start fresh and try to incorporate the rules as they stand now...and try to build enough expandibility into it that it can handle new rule twists.

I also realized that the current version of PCGen is not supported yet by the data sets developped by CMP.

Correct.

 

[Guennarr]

Hi again!

Thank you both for your replies!
Actually I think that I got a better impression about which programme could help me (and my DM needs). e-Tools sounds like the programme of choice (due to its feat and skills content), on the other hand I am unwilling to spend money on a programme that is as good as abandoned. PCGen seems to have evolved in an interesting way. I guess, I will download the current version and test it again. On the other hand I read on CMP's site that it is not sure yet, if PCGen will receive as much WotC-add-on support as right now. Ressources at CMP might be moved in favour of the new programme.

I read an ad here or there about the other mentioned programmes, didn't see either of them live, though. I guess, I will have another look at them, too. I guess, all of these programmes require considerably more effort of mine (having to enter the WotC rules data manually...).

Unfortunately CMP's purposefully stays rather reluctant about giving away information on the new programme - there seem to have been bad past experiences with customers insisting on delivery dates that couldn't be fulfilled...

Thanks again and greetings from Germany,
Günther

 

[Vascant]

There are always options though.

 

[Guennarr]

Which ones?

Günther

 

[Vascant]

Not for me to say really, only you know what you want, how much time and money you are willing to invest in achieving your goal. We each kind of make these decisions with d20 related software and they are based on our own needs.

Based on what you have stated thus far, I say either wait until after GenCon or PCGen. The reason I say wait is because I know like for myself and CMP, we are both working on new software and you never know what others may be doing as well.

 

[Mercule]

I use PCGen. My players use HeroForge. HeroForge is prettier, but PCGen is more powerful.

I used to really dislike PCGen. I'm not a fan of the Java platform, the app ran really slow, and it had/has a clunky interface.

Well, I kept coming back to it and learned to like it. There's not much that can be done about the Java, but with R5.8.1, it's plenty stable -- really big improvements. It runs much faster than it used to, comfortably so. And, the interface really doesn't take very long to get used to -- plus, it still looks better (subjective) that all other comers (of which I'm aware) besides HeroForge and RPGXplorer.

There are three major changes that I'd love to see to PCGen: 1) an output sheet that looks like HeroForge (or RPGX, even); 2) CMP put out datasets within a month of the book being released; 3) a skills page that looked a lot more like HeroForge's.

 

[kingpaul]

There are three major changes that I'd love to see to PCGen: 1) an output sheet that looks like HeroForge (or RPGX, even);

I'll bring this up the output sheet monkeys.

2) CMP put out datasets within a month of the book being released;

That's up to CMP, as PCGen has no control over CMP's dataset production.

3) a skills page that looked a lot more like HeroForge's.

I'll bring this up to the code monkeys.

 

[Ilium]

Just thought I'd chime in with a vote for PCGen. I haven't used e-tools so I can't compare the two, but I use PCGen all the time. Just today I needed to stat up a Human Wizard9/Aristocrat1 who will be fighting a mage duel with one of my PCs next time. Quick and easy.

And the performance and stability improvements in PCGen over the last year or so have been dramatic, at least in my experience.

Now if only there was a better interface for entering my own datasets...

 

[Mercule]

I'll bring this up the output sheet monkeys.

That's up to CMP, as PCGen has no control over CMP's dataset production.

I'll bring this up to the code monkeys.

Note, this is just elaboration, not griping: Paul, the output sheet and the skills page are the two areas that my players have specifically commented on being frustrating. I think (hope?) that an improvement to at least the output sheet might convince my players to adopt PCGen. Or not, but I can dream.

I've tried it myself, but I don't have the time to learn the output tags (along with the lst tags, CC2, and actually planning my game).

I know you don't control CMP's schedule, but I can still comment, right?