D&D 5E E6 in 5e

[Flamestrike]

At any rate, I find your idea of running "a few campaigns to 20th" a bit laughable. It takes a LONG time IME to get from 1st to 20th in any edition, several months to years in real time. Your pace must be greatly accelerated compared to what I am used to!

I've been playing weekly for 35 years since BECMI and AD&D, so have had my fair share of high level campaigns!

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've been playing weekly for 35 years since BECMI and AD&D, so have had my fair share of high level campaigns!

LOL I've been playing for 40 (not that it's a contest...) and have played in about a half-dozen or so that have reached levels of 15 or higher.

But most players, especially those new to D&D as of 5E, like most the people at our current table, have not played nearly that long and so I would not expect newer DMs to have the experience and skill to run a high-level campaign well. Now, given 5E's advised "Pace of Play", I think a group could get to 15th or higher in about 1-2 years. I expect our group will get there probably next summer sometime.

Anyway, give younger/newer players and DMs another 10-30 years, and I am sure they could handle it if they wanted. A lot of people simply enjoy the sweet spot of gaming (5th to 15th) where most things can still be used as adversaries and most types of adventures are still applicable.

 

[BlivetWidget]

Good point. It is very demanding and challenging to create (at least) somewhat believable story-lines for 15+ levels, but that has been the case in every edition. I've run a few, but even for players sometimes the challenge of getting there is really more fun.

Agreed, the high levels are far less predictable and require good improvisational skills, particularly for a group with magic users. At low levels, most classes rely on their at-will abilities, so it is easier to plan encounters ahead of time. But by the time even 4th and 5th level spells come into play, a single Polymorph or Wall of Force can be the difference between an easy encounter and a deadly one. Since the DM can't know when those will be used, they need to be flexible and accept that not every encounter will need to go as planned.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Has anyone brought up a level /floor/ for 5e?
I could see capping 5e at about 10, maybe 11 so the poor fighter can have his extra extra attack and finally feel a bit better at fighting than the Ranger/Paladin/War-Cleric/Valor-Bard/bladesinger (seriously?).
But, seriously, 5e works a lot better by 3rd or 4th than it does at 1st. So for 5e E6? Shift it two or three levels. E4-9? 3-11?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Has anyone brought up a level /floor/ for 5e?
I could see capping 5e at about 10, maybe 11 so the poor fighter can have his extra extra attack and finally feel a bit better at fighting than the Ranger/Paladin/War-Cleric/Valor-Bard/bladesinger (seriously?).
But, seriously, 5e works a lot better by 3rd or 4th than it does at 1st. So for 5e E6? Shift it two or three levels. E4-9? 3-11?

IME the first few levels happen so quickly that, especially for experienced players, skipping levels 1 and 2 so everyone can begin in their subclass would work fine. However, the other side is that because they happen so quickly, it doesn't take long to get through them so you might as well just keep them in and not worry about it.

Either way, you know?

 

[killerklown]

As i said on my blog (DREAD's rules: Level Cap at lvl 8):
My practical observation is that at higher levels (10+), the outcome of encounters seems to become much more random, since saves then become so much more important and decisive. If you fail your first save in the first round of combat, then you're out. If more than half the party fails the save, then the encounter is doomed to be mortal (sometimes even for the whole party). Since i'm a very unfortunate player, I tend to sit more than half of the time at the table side without being able to do anything. And that's a fun killer, in my opinion. And I blame the growing importance of Monster Abilities at higher level for killing the fun of a part of the table...

Concerning E9 or E10, i'm still inclined to go for E9.
The Bard is in my opinion the only one losing a lot (Bardic Inspiration (d10), Expertise, Magical Secrets) and i can accept that (not a big fan of the Skalde )

 

[S'mon]

5e is certainly much better balanced than 3e IMO. But level 17+, and especially 20th level play, certainly tends towards a superheroic feel. I think if I were to cap below E20 in 5e, it would be to keep a B/X or OD&D feel, which means limiting spells to 6th level. That implies an E12 cap, making 11-12 the Endgame levels and Proficiency capping at +4. That gives Fighters 3 attacks/round, and other non-casters get cool capstone abilities to match caster level 6 casting. It also means I can use the full range of monster CRs 1-20, with only ancient dragons & the Tarrasque remaining semi-unstoppable threats.

 

[killerklown]

It also means I can use the full range of monster CRs 1-20, with only ancient dragons & the Tarrasque remaining semi-unstoppable threats.

I actually intend to use the full Rage of CRs also with my E9 campaign...
Some unique monster will stay out of reach of a party of adventurers, sure, but that's why you should recruit henchmen, or better yet, build up fiefdoms and raise armies...

 

[S'mon]

I actually intend to use the full Rage of CRs also with my E9 campaign...
Some unique monster will stay out of reach of a party of adventurers, sure, but that's why you should recruit henchmen, or better yet, build up fiefdoms and raise armies...

I suspect a well built & well played party of 6 level 9 adventurers actually probably could take on a level 24 red dragon. It's certainly hittable, breath attack not too bad. You need a Paladin for countering the fear* effect, either a Barbarian (preferably Bear Totem or otherwise fire-resistant) or an Eldritch Knight for tanking it, and a Cleric or Bard for healing the fallen and getting them back into the fight.

*IME the dragon fear + claw/claw/bite on same round is by far the worst thing about Legendary dragons. The fear makes an army of limited use.

 

[S'mon]

Or for keeping the game at an AD&D type level, E16 avoids all the Justice League/Avengers Superhero level powers like Infinite Wildshape and keeps the game to the equivalent of 4e Paragon Tier. E16 just feels a little odd though. E14 has the advantage of tradition - matching Moldvay B/X. The core E20 game is more Elric-level IME, PCs battling demon lords & ancient dragons solo.