E6: The Game Inside D&D (with PDFs!)

[Ry]

If you do the math, 12 is the magic number, not 11, because the players win the tie. Look for previous discussions of the Players Roll All the Dice variant for an expansion of that.

 

[Rolzup]

In a thread over at RPGnet, I came up with a variation upon E6. It's one of those things that seems really neat in theory, but would probably not be workable in play. Nevertheless, I thought that I'd offer it for consideration.

E6 represents normal "human" limits. With human defined pretty loosely, admittedly....

There are areas, though, where the laws of reality are different. Twisted, in a way. Where higher-order magic becomes possible, where human limits are easily...casually broken. These places are called "dungeons"....

Basically, you've got two versions of your characters. You use the E6 character when you're not in one of these areas of broken reality, but you use the advanced version when you are in the "belly of the beast."

As I've said, it might be too unweildy, in the end. But for a certain sort of game.... I dunno. I like it. A lot.

 

[Shazman]

To be honest, that system sounds a little wonky, but if you and your players like it, then give it a try. I've been thinking of adding a twist for if I ever run an E6 game. Characters gain levels normally until 6th, after 6000 exp, they get a level of an paragon class (unearthed arcana) appropriate for their race. After another 7000 exp, they get the second level of their paragon class (or a level of a prestige class, if they really want it, and it's not broken/fits the character). After that, it's the normal feat every 5000 exp. I know this is essentially E8 and would allow some 4th level spells, but the idea intrigues me for some reason.

 

[tvar]

Have those of you who are trying E6erron (or E8erron) given any thought to Artificers emulating spell prerequisites for magic items? Do you think you would allow them to use UMD to emulate spells higher than the highest level normally cast? While it sounds easy to say "no" to that, what about spells which still exist as spell-like abilities granted by Dragonmarks?

I am personally thinking of trying out E8erron, and one specific spell on my mind is Teleport. Obviously the spell wouldn't normally be in the game, but House Orion can get Teleport as spell-like ability with their Greater Dragonmark. (There may be a good example for E6erron as well, but I haven't tried to find one.) Though come to think of it the Teleport magic items require CL 9, so I guess no one could really create one in E8 (except members of House Orion itself, since their Greater Dragonmarks are CL 10), so even Teleport may not be a good example.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

(Also, as a quick aside since I'm asking about Artificers, I think they should probably get to replenish their Craft Reserve each time they gain a bonus feat, as though they had just re-attained their highest Artificer level. Is that reasonable?)

 

[Dragonblade275]

More Feats for E6

I found 8 feats that could probably be used in E6 on Monte Cook's site.

Originally posted by Monte Cook.

Eight New Feats
Here are a few new feats. The first is a special one, usable only by the DM's permission. Dreamspeaking should only be used in campaigns where magical dreams of some importance are fairly common. Prophetic dreams are a frequently used plot device; this feat simply makes for a way to handle the plot device within the bounds of the rules. The rest are all inspired by existing D&D feats -- a number of them are based on the same idea as Alertness.

Dreamspeaking [General]
Sometimes dreams are important missives sent from above, or from within. You can interpret the dreams that you have, or that others have.
Prerequisite: Wis 15
Benefit: When someone tells you about a dream, or when you consider your own dream, you can tell automatically if it was a dream of importance, also known as a "sending" dream. If it is a sending dream, you can attempt a Wisdom check (DC 15) to interpret its meaning. If your Wisdom check succeeds, the DM should give you some clue as to the meaning of the dream. For example, a character might dream of a threatening rider dressed in black, surrounded by ravens. On a successful Wisdom check, the player learns that the dream foretells an encounter with a foe named "raven." Later the party does indeed go up against a villain named Kevris Killraven. Retries are not allowed.

Ranged Expertise [General]
You are trained at using your ranged combat skill for defense as well as offense.
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: When using an attack action or full attack action with a ranged weapon, the character can take a penalty of as much as –5 on the attack and add the same number (up to +5) to his or her Armor Class against either ranged or melee attacks. This number may not exceed the character's base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until the character's next action. The bonus to the character's Armor Class is a dodge bonus.

Forced Swiftness [General]
You can run when encumbrance and armor otherwise would not allow it.
Prerequisite: Str 13
Benefit: You can run when the armor you are wearing or the amount of gear you are carrying normally would prevent you from running.

Nimble Fingers [General]*
You have dexterous fingers and good hand-to-eye coordination.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Disable Device and Pick Lock checks.

Athleticism [General]*
You use your physique and agility to their utmost.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb and Jump checks.

Agile Limbs [General]*
You are limber and dexterous, allowing you to move gracefully.
Benefit: You gain a +2 to Balance and Move Silently checks.

Outdoorsman [General]*
You are trained particularly well for life in the wild.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Handle Animal and Survival checks.

Magical Talent [General]*
The mystical and eldritch secrets are clear to you.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks.

*These last five feats work best when you adopt the house rule that the feat Skill Focus adds +3 to a skill rather than the listed +2.​

Also, what do you think of his house rule for Skill Focus in E6?

 

[Ry]

Well, his house rule was before 3.5e

3.5e changed Skill focus to +3 anyway.

 

[green slime]

Have those of you who are trying E6erron (or E8erron) given any thought to Artificers emulating spell prerequisites for magic items? Do you think you would allow them to use UMD to emulate spells higher than the highest level normally cast? While it sounds easy to say "no" to that, what about spells which still exist as spell-like abilities granted by Dragonmarks?

I am personally thinking of trying out E8erron, and one specific spell on my mind is Teleport. Obviously the spell wouldn't normally be in the game, but House Orion can get Teleport as spell-like ability with their Greater Dragonmark. (There may be a good example for E6erron as well, but I haven't tried to find one.) Though come to think of it the Teleport magic items require CL 9, so I guess no one could really create one in E8 (except members of House Orion itself, since their Greater Dragonmarks are CL 10), so even Teleport may not be a good example.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

(Also, as a quick aside since I'm asking about Artificers, I think they should probably get to replenish their Craft Reserve each time they gain a bonus feat, as though they had just re-attained their highest Artificer level. Is that reasonable?)

I consider that the use of a very limited number of higher level spells per day, gained through feat expenditure, is not overbearing upon E6, purely because of the extreme opportunity cost. Firstly, the Dragonmarks and other similar feats suggested here, only grant a single higher level spell 1/day.

 

[tvar]

I consider that the use of a very limited number of higher level spells per day, gained through feat expenditure, is not overbearing upon E6, purely because of the extreme opportunity cost. Firstly, the Dragonmarks and other similar feats suggested here, only grant a single higher level spell 1/day.

Right, I am definitely not planning or toning down the Dragonmarks in any way. I like the fact that a lower powered campaign makes the marks more powerful (and also more desirable for PCs).

My question is whether or not an Artificer can/should be able to emulate these spell-like abilities for item creation.

I thought of a better example than I had before: True Seeing. This spell would normally not exist in the world except as a spell-like ability possessed by House Medani and any creatures that get it. But the spell is required to create a Ring of X-Ray Vision (requires CL 6). Can/should an Artificer be able to use UMD to emulate True Seeing and create this item?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Right, I am definitely not planning or toning down the Dragonmarks in any way. I like the fact that a lower powered campaign makes the marks more powerful (and also more desirable for PCs).

My question is whether or not an Artificer can/should be able to emulate these spell-like abilities for item creation.

I thought of a better example than I had before: True Seeing. This spell would normally not exist in the world except as a spell-like ability possessed by House Medani and any creatures that get it. But the spell is required to create a Ring of X-Ray Vision (requires CL 6). Can/should an Artificer be able to use UMD to emulate True Seeing and create this item?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Eberron depicted as a campaign setting with very few high level characters? If you needed a 9th (or 11th, or 13th...) level wizard in Eberron, how hard would it be to find one?

 

[Nimloth]

I just finished running a D&D campaign a couple of months ago where the characters ended up at 14th to 16th level (depending on La). While it was fun, near the end it became a chore to create appropriate villians and encounters. And don't even get me started on the high level spells issue. So I was starting to think about my next campaign and I find E6. This is a great idea. A whole box of cookies for rycanada.

Currently (details to be worked out with the players) I am planning on running either E6(lean upward) or E8 game with Gestalt characters. Any particular concerns/thoughts about adding Gestalt.

Details: I have 4 players, but most of the time only 3 at any 1 time (thanks to the Schedule Conflict Ogre). If I do E8 I will limit magic to 3rd level spells, with 4th level slots available for metamagic spells.