Eberron-as corny as I think?

[Spatula]

Um, ok. Golems actually have a mythological basis.

And warforged are golems.

 

[scourger]

...I'm still trying to fully grok it...

This is how I feel about it having just looked at it and read about it. But, the quote really makes me want to play Omega World.

 

[I'm Cleo]

Eberron has a ton of very clever ideas that I really like (and will happily steal and put into my Greyhawk campaigns). They really went out and came up with new ideas, breaking from the Tolkien/Earth history tradition, and I think that's to be lauded. I feel though, to a certain extent, it's a patchwork of good ideas, but it's a newer campaign setting. As campaigns are played and "support" materials are published (novels, sourcebooks), it'll develop into a full, well-integrated world.

I have no problem with Eberron's "theme" -- either you like it or you don't. I happen not to run the setting, and the other players in my group prefer Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk, but I certainly don't mind if someone does like it, and I'd happily play it.

The only issue I have is with the campaign world itself. For some reason it reminds me of an MMORPG world. Like, "here's the forest zone", and "here's the swamp zone", and "here's the desert zone with feral halflings", and "here's the jungle zone with lizardmen", &c. The Mournlands and Demon Wastes are the "mid level" zones, and then Xen'Drik is the "high level" zone. Argonessen is the mystery land that your clan might be able to explore when the developers put out the expansion pack to let you level to 70. Ever since I looked at the map and thought "World of Warcraft", I couldn't get the "MMORPG model" out of my head whenver I attempt to interpret the world itself. Of course, it doesn't really matter that it's like that -- in fact it allows for integration of all the cool ideas that the developers came up with -- but it just doesn't appeal to me.

In the interests of full disclosure, I love Greyhawk -- primarily because it completely rips off European history and the Tolkien tradition. Being completely honest (not snarky at all), I guess it's easier for me to get into a game if I can relate it to something with which I'm familiar and I don't have to use my imagination quite as much. Or maybe in a different way. But given that I have such a negative "Reviewer's Tilt" and still like what they did in Eberron, I guess that's pretty good.

I'm Cleo!

 

[rounser]

The only issue I have is with the campaign world itself. For some reason it reminds me of an MMORPG world. Like, "here's the forest zone", and "here's the swamp zone", and "here's the desert zone with feral halflings", and "here's the jungle zone with lizardmen", &c. The Mournlands and Demon Wastes are the "mid level" zones, and then Xen'Drik is the "high level" zone. Argonessen is the mystery land that your clan might be able to explore when the developers put out the expansion pack to let you level to 70. Ever since I looked at the map and thought "World of Warcraft", I couldn't get the "MMORPG model" out of my head whenver I attempt to interpret the world itself. Of course, it doesn't really matter that it's like that -- in fact it allows for integration of all the cool ideas that the developers came up with -- but it just doesn't appeal to me.

Looks like they're treating the wilderness with some respect as an adventuring environment, by adding some game artefacts to make it conveniently usable as such. I think this is a good idea.

 

[jdrakeh]

And warforged are golems.

Yes, but *gasp* they're player characters. This seems to be the crux of the anti-warforged camp. As longs as golems are mindless monsters to be whacked for XP, no problem - but sentient golems that you can choose as a PC race? Eeeeeeeeeeevil and wrong! Or at least that's what those stodgy old bastards who live in fear of any game book published since 1990 keep telling me. Today, I choose to be evil and wrong (because it's a lot more fun than cramming a giant stick up my ass every morning).

 

[genshou]

I honestly don't know what to think of Eberron. Having never played it I can only form a vague opinion, but what I do hear makes me think the "premises" upon which the major changes in the setting were built are not properly understood. Few people really take the time to figure out the statistics on availability of magic in a typical D&D setting, and the way Eberron handles it is just weird.

I wouldn't turn down an Eberron game if I knew the DM was very good, but I'm not going to actively seek out the setting. I think the main stumbling block to enjoying the setting is probably the fact that it's just not my style, and it looks to me like some of the concepts were implemented without really understanding how magic in a standard D&D world would realistically be able to impact the world.

 

[rounser]

Or at least that's what those stodgy old bastards who live in fear of any game book published since 1990 keep telling me. Today, I choose to be evil and wrong (because it's a lot more fun than cramming a giant stick up my ass every morning).

I never knew it was possible to extrapolate so much about someone's personality just based on the fact that they think that magic robot PCs are lame.

 

[jdrakeh]

I never knew it was possible to extrapolate so much about someone's personality just based on the fact that they think that magic robot PCs are lame.

Actually, it's based more on the fact that I'm familiar with a lot those stodgy old bastards by name from other forums where making sophomoric jokes about any game published in the last ten years and the people who play them is a way of life for many. In other words, it's based on an observed, long-standing, and pronounced behavior pattern.

As far as "magic robots", none of the warforged detractors (here or elsewhere) has yet to explain why golems are perfectly acceptable as walking bags of hit points, but not as sentient PCs. I'm really kind of curious. I suspect the only answer is what I've already hypothesized, though (i.e. "It's new and different, therefore it is bad and wrong!").

Feel free to prove me wrong. Tell me why golems are acceptable as monsters, but not as PCs.

 

[MerricB]

That just sounds like you're trying to rationalize an untenable position. Golems are robots in everything but name only. Besides, as far as I know, golems from legend were only made of mud.

Although the golem of legend was made of mud/clay, there exist equivalent creatures in mythology and fantasy - Talos of greek legend is the prototypical iron golem.

Cheers!

 

[rounser]

In other words, it's based on an observed, long-standing, and pronounced behavior pattern.

Yeah, and I bet you were an unbiased judge of them too. There are two kinds of fools, you know.