Eberron-as corny as I think?

[Odhanan]

it sounds to me like you just want to hog all the fun toys. What you've basically just said is "It's okay if I (through the NPCs) use golems/psions/etc to show off how weird and alien and cool my ideas (through the world) are, but the players should just play normal stuff so I look even cooler."

Heh. That's a bit blunt, but I agree on the substance. The post came to me as such too.

 

[rounser]

With all due respect, it sounds to me like you just want to hog all the fun toys.

Aha! Now we're into "player rights to new splat" territory, which is a new and interesting facet to D&D that 3E has spawned, and a double-edged sword all of it's own with regard to player entitlement, DM control over their own campaign and rules complexity....I guess I'm being cruel and unfair by restricting the campaign to just using core plus some FR stuff, too...[valleygirl]whateva.[/valleygirl] I don't see how negotiating with, outwitting, allying with or beating NPC golems to a pulp isn't "playing with them", either.

Perfect material for a new thread, mind you, although I think it was covered in some "think before saying no" threads recently.

EDIT: Nope, even more recently....that thread asking for why he can't get players to go with a party of "classic heroes", as opposed to a random menagerie of mutants.

 

[jdrakeh]

So, in other words, to boil that down a bit, Golems as PC's are bad because you don't like them?

That's about the long and short of it - but why say it like a sane person when you can say it like a crazy street preacher?

 

[I'm Cleo]

rounser,

I understand the function of the discrete environments in Eberron -- in a sense you re-stated what I wrote: they actually did make "a forest region" and "a swamp region" and "an orc region", &c. But the environment regions are identical to the political ones, in large part. It just seems very inorganic to me, artificial -- not like a world but like a MMORPG.

As far as "treating the wilderness with respect as an adventuring environment", isn't that a question of individual DMs/campaigns?

I'm Cleo!

 

[Asmor]

Aha! Now we're into "player rights to new splat" territory, which is a new and interesting facet to D&D that 3E has spawned

Uhh... Granted, I haven't been into the hobby all that long, but has there ever in the history of RPGs been any lines that DIDN'T release books to give players new abilities*? Hell, "splat" as a term for books offering player options is originally derived from White Wolf's WoD, if I recall correctly, as shorthand for their ubiquitous Clanbook/Tribebook/Whateverbooks that were released for every game. I know 2nd Edition had a ton of those Quintessential Fighter and similar dealies, and I've no idea what a "kit" is, but from what I've read it sounds like it was just extra options for players.

*Note: This doesn't count RPGs which didn't because they failed or were just too small to justify the costs. Even then, you just know the authors would have if they could have justified it.

 

[rounser]

That's about the long and short of it - but why say it like a sane person when you can say it like a crazy street preacher?

And why bother with discussion when you can make ad hominem attacks. Thanks for showing your true colours, I don't know why I've shown you the respect you aren't paying me.

 

[Odhanan]

Uhh... Granted, I haven't been into the hobby all that long, but has there ever in the history of RPGs been any lines that DIDN'T release books to give players new abilities*? Hell, "splat" as a term for books offering player options is originally derived from White Wolf's WoD, if I recall correctly, as shorthand for their ubiquitous Clanbook/Tribebook/Whateverbooks that were released for every game. I know 2nd Edition had a ton of those Quintessential Fighter and similar dealies, and I've no idea what a "kit" is, but from what I've read it sounds like it was just extra options for players.

Diaglo isn't here to post it, so I'll save him some time and post it here: the power creep/new abilities for players etc actually started with OD&D, Supplement I: Greyhawk.

 

[rounser]

Uhh... Granted, I haven't been into the hobby all that long, but has there ever in the history of RPGs been any lines that DIDN'T release books to give players new abilities*?

It's mostly been in the form of entire new classes that were later integrated into the core of the game (thinking stuff like Blackmoor, Unearthed Arcana here). With 2E, PC customisation really began to take off with kits (to the extent that kits were targeted by 3E designers as a bad thing that rewarded restarting the campaign with new characters so that you could try out a new kit, or so I gathered from a post from Ryan Dancey). 3E seems to have increased this aspect of the game exponentially, because the game has a lot of modular components and ways of integrating exotic races in ways that former editions of the game would struggle to handle.

 

[genshou]

rounser,

I understand the function of the discrete environments in Eberron -- in a sense you re-stated what I wrote: they actually did make "a forest region" and "a swamp region" and "an orc region", &c. But the environment regions are identical to the political ones, in large part. It just seems very inorganic to me, artificial -- not like a world but like a MMORPG.

As far as "treating the wilderness with respect as an adventuring environment", isn't that a question of individual DMs/campaigns?

I'm Cleo!

I noticed that too, but since that's how I design a lot of my worlds (I'm lazy) it didn't strike me as a problem. I guess it could be viewed as kinda lame and (gasp) video-gamey by some people. It just never really bothered me enough to be noticed alongside some other things I am bothered by in Eberron.

Yes, I think treating the wilderness with resect as an adventuring environment shouldn't be difficult for DMs to do on their own, but the support is very nice.

 

[Drowbane]

...it's a lot more fun than cramming a giant stick up my ass every morning...

Ahh, so you're not a paladin?