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Eberron inconsistencies

jimmifett

Banned
Banned
There would be mass-rape and atrocities back then. The PTSD effects would be greatly magnified, I would think.

I wonder if anyone has made a serious study of the matter. Did soldiers returning from the Civil War have all the same issues that soldiers returning from today's wars do, or was it somehow different? (We certainly have evidence that the mindset of the USA was different back then, but did it have any effect?)

There are undoubtedly cases of PTSD, but like the civil war, even in eberron, there aren't the conveniences of modern technology. Magical conveniences are too expensive for the soldier returning to his farm. There is work to be done in the fields to keep bellies full. You'd have a marked increase in drinking and prostituion as a release valve for thier emotions, an increase in suicides and domestic violence, but for the most part, they have no choice but to go back to thier old jobs, hard at work, or die of starvation. Treasuries of the governments are low from a century of warfare, so there isn't going to be a lot of social programs to help them cope, except possibly from the religions.
 

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That's the reason why I have to verify what inconsistencies Eberron hides behind its wonderful scenario, and I'm asking help to the EnWorld crew to find (and possibly solve) them beforehand.

This is probably an exercise in long-term futility, because I remember one such thing came up on the WotC Eberron boards. Someone asked, "Why are Valinar Horses so expensive?"

The answer: "Because the elves don't sell them."

Reply: "So if I horse-thief some of them, and start breeding them, I can make a mint."

Answer: "The horses ridden in battle are fixed. Only certain breeding stock is kept in secret places."

Reply: "So, I have a druid and he casts Regeneration and Heal. Horse is now healthy and can reproduce. I use Dominate Animal to make them breed. Can this work?"

Answer (from Keith Baker himself in a Dragonshard): "The horses have some kind of spiritual connection with the elven heroes of the past. Attempts have been made to breed the horses, but only the elves seem to have the understanding or the knack to ensure success."


And that's just the example I remember. All settings have things that are story-wise awesome, but game-mechanical *whu?* Too many to ever really fix, especially with more rituals and powers being released all the time.

Best thing to do is to strike a gentlemen's agreement with your players. If they bring up a good point, give them a small reward for clever thinking, but don't let it break the world.


Well, it looks like they have 15 CL spellcasters (where are they???), so it doesn't appear to be so impossible to imagine a 17th level spellcaster in 1000 years.


These inconsistances can be mitigated, depending on how much you are willing to hand-wave things for NPCs.

For my Eberron campaigns, I've said something like:

"I know the description says a 15th level caster, and that's what it would take for you to build it yourself. But with 75 1st level magewright assistants, a particular dragonshard focus item, a dragonmark heir of the proper mark, and 3 years of work, a 9th level caster can do it. How many of those items do you have access to?"


There would be mass-rape and atrocities back then. The PTSD effects would be greatly magnified, I would think.

I wonder if anyone has made a serious study of the matter. Did soldiers returning from the Civil War have all the same issues that soldiers returning from today's wars do, or was it somehow different? (We certainly have evidence that the mindset of the USA was different back then, but did it have any effect?)


I dare say people didn't talk about such stuff back then: you suffered in silence. People would be equally as tramatized, but you got drunk and beat your wife in the privacy of your own home and no one ever spoke of it.
 

Spatula

Explorer
One aspect of the setting I found undeveloped is: what does a world look like, where a significant percent of the population can change their appearance at-will and even mimic others? (suddenly I am reminded of the "Evil Doppelganger" legal defense in the superhero world of Kurt Busiek's Astro City) Organizations must have spells and safeguards to ward against changeling infiltration, which I don't think is magical in nature. Given the high level and expense of true seeing, that particular spell probably isn't a practical solution.

I guess you could say the same about defenses against scrying and unwanted incursions via teleport. D&D in general does not tend to pay much attention to these sorts of world-building topics, which leaves new DMs in the lurch the first time the players try out such tactics.
 

jimmifett

Banned
Banned
One aspect of the setting I found undeveloped is: what does a world look like, where a significant percent of the population can change their appearance at-will and even mimic others? (suddenly I am reminded of the "Evil Doppelganger" legal defense in the superhero world of Kurt Busiek's Astro City) Organizations must have spells and safeguards to ward against changeling infiltration, which I don't think is magical in nature. Given the high level and expense of true seeing, that particular spell probably isn't a practical solution.

I guess you could say the same about defenses against scrying and unwanted incursions via teleport. D&D in general does not tend to pay much attention to these sorts of world-building topics, which leaves new DMs in the lurch the first time the players try out such tactics.


Depending on how secure an organization wishes to be, you have pass phrases, you have goggles of true seeing created by special order from Cannith and used by guards at check entrances like modern day xray machines. Regular interviews using some sort of low level detect lies spell like the FBI uses lie detectors for security clearance.

Even if there are few high level NPCs now, doesn't mean that has been the case 100 years prior. You've had centuries to have such artifacts built by pre-war budgets, the schematics only understandable to those of high enough level, locked away until another arises that can make sense of the sith holocrons..er... artifact schemata...;)
 

On Puget Sound

First Post
Every setting has them, particularly the more detailed ones.

Aw come on, D&D has always striven for consistency and authenticity. Since its earliest days.


"Behind the door is a 20x20 room with 6 storm giants." No food, no water, no sanitary facilities, and the door is too small for them to have fit through in the first place.
 

Danzauker

Adventurer
One thing that never convinced me, and is applicable to varios fantasy worlds, is that once a nation has a viable way of producing an army of undead (magically possible, economically feasible, morally acceptable...) I can not understand why it doesn't escalate to dominate the entire world.

After all, people continue dying, and every dead is another soldier. Which does not need food, pay and lodging.
 

jimmifett

Banned
Banned
One thing that never convinced me, and is applicable to varios fantasy worlds, is that once a nation has a viable way of producing an army of undead (magically possible, economically feasible, morally acceptable...) I can not understand why it doesn't escalate to dominate the entire world.

After all, people continue dying, and every dead is another soldier. Which does not need food, pay and lodging.

The Karnnathi don't exactly accept undead soldiers. IIRC, it's a recent (last hundred+ years or so) addition to their armed forces. While they produce better undead than the average undead, all it does is increase their numbers, they aren't very good at combat against live tacticians.
 

Aaron

First Post
One thing that never convinced me, and is applicable to varios fantasy worlds, is that once a nation has a viable way of producing an army of undead (magically possible, economically feasible, morally acceptable...) I can not understand why it doesn't escalate to dominate the entire world.
Maybe there's someone who shares your same thoughts.
[sblock]"Prothan ir'Vemel (...) genuinely supports Kaius in his efforts toward peacemaking - the better for Karrnath to raise a truly gigantic undead horde to conquer their enemies when war finally does resume". (Five Nations, page 120).[/sblock]
 

IIRC, the undead were mass-created by the Order of the Emerald Claw/Blood of Vol, which is now officially an anti-Karrnath terrorist organization.

Kaius himself isn't a necromancer, and I don't even know how much control he has over the undead troops. Aren't they still "loyal" to Vol?
 

A

amerigoV

Guest
This is probably an exercise in long-term futility, because I remember one such thing came up on the WotC Eberron boards. Someone asked, "Why are Valinar Horses so expensive?"

The answer: "Because the elves don't sell them."

Reply: "So if I horse-thief some of them, and start breeding them, I can make a mint."

Answer: "The horses ridden in battle are fixed. Only certain breeding stock is kept in secret places."

...

Best thing to do is to strike a gentlemen's agreement with your players. If they bring up a good point, give them a small reward for clever thinking, but don't let it break the world.

<plus other ideas>

On stuff like this, you guys are way over thinking it. Here is the solution:

Player: "What keeps me from walking over and taking one of those conduit stones?" (or stealing/breeding horses, or other campaign breaking ideas).

DM: "I don't know. Does your character try it?" <followed by evil grin, and other evil "please do it" body language> :devil:

Player: "Ah, no. So, what was the plot hook again?"

Either the mystery remains, or the group will do really insane planning to do the dumb thing. If they go the latter route, they will give you a great answer in the plotting not to get killed by the thing. If they proceed, you hit them with the nastiest of their ideas. Then that player gets the satisfaction of mocking the player of the dead PC "I told you the stone would summon a Tarrasque..."
 

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