Eberron inconsistencies

[Aaron]

I'm going to start a new campaign (3.5) as a DM, and (finally) it will be in Eberron.

(Un)fortunately I have a group of players extremely adept at finding plot and/or setting inconsistencies.

That's the reason why I have to verify what inconsistencies Eberron hides behind its wonderful scenario, and I'm asking help to the EnWorld crew to find (and possibly solve) them beforehand.

Maybe I should start citing a bunch of them I think I have found:

1) House Orien, that has been around for hundreds of years, offers expensive magical trains, but doesn't have a teleportation circle network between the major Metropolis and Cities; I don't get it.
Besides that, PC spellcasters could become rapidly rich attaining a level sufficient to cast Teleport, and offering their service.

2) Eberron is supposed to be a low level type campaign. We read that "in a world where the average soldier is a 2nd-level warrior, a 5th-level fighter can be an important individual. This is the case in Eberron."
However, we also read, for example, in Five Nations (page 41) that, even if their number is diminished, "the knight phantoms remain in service to the Aundair crown after the end of the last war".

The point is, in order to qualify for the Knight Phantom PrC you must be at least a 5th level wizard, or a 6th level sorcerer, or a 7th level bard. According to Keith, these should be all important individuals. How many Knight Phantoms serve the crown at the moment?

The same goes for the myriad of PrCs scattered in the Eberron books: they usually require a character of at least 5th level. How many of them can I assume existent at the moment?

There you go.

 

[innerdude]

Really don't want this to come across as snarky.....but the fact that you feel the need to defend your campaign from your players "breaking" it with stuff like this doesn't particularly sound like a great way to get the campaign off on the right foot.

Wouldn't a more productive tactic be to go to your players and say, "I really want to play in Eberron, and I want it to be a fun, thrilling set of adventures for all of us. I know you in the past have picked apart perceived inconsistencies, but for this campaign I'd really like for you to avoid doing that, so we can all enjoy the story, adventure, and camaraderie without getting caught up in stuff that will likely have very little impact on how we play."

Besides, if they want to become "teleportation transportation industry" barons, why not let them?

 

[RandomCitizenX]

1.) Teleportation circle is a 9th level spell, meaning for Eberron purposes it would be so stupidly rare and expensive that it just isn't feasible for House Orien to set up that sort of service. As for the PC's setting up shop after getting to the level to cast Teleport, it is important to remember that the dragonmark houses are powerful continent spanning groups equivalent to corporations. House Orien would not appreciate that and has the coin to make sure that the business is short lived. If the PC's try such a thing sabotage would quickly give way to assassins if the characters didn't start to see things the House's way.

I can't speak much about point number 2.) because I don't know much about the Knight Phantoms, but the fact that they are a PrC makes it seem that is must be a fairly elite group. Only becomes an inconsistency if they are rank and file peons instead of some sort of honor guard/special forces.

 

[TwoSix]

1) Probably, there's never been a 17+ level wizard in the history of House Orien. Heck, Mordain is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the last millennium, and he's only 18th.

2) Probably most members of the Knights Phantom don't have the PrC. It's probably only the greatest Knight Phantom of all time who gains the upper levels of that PrC.

To be fair, it was probably a mistake for Eberron to use PrCs for their original concept (member of a special organization) when the game was designed around low-level NPCs, and PrCs had already moved beyond the organization niche by 2004.

For any particular PrC, I would assume only a bare handful (<10) exist of any particular one in all of Eberron.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Really don't want this to come across as snarky.....but the fact that you feel the need to defend your campaign from your players "breaking" it with stuff like this doesn't particularly sound like a great way to get the campaign off on the right foot.

Yeah, these guys don't sound like they want to play in Eberron. That said, I don't think I'd want to DM for them anyway; this is a two-way street and if they can't get on-board with what the DM wants to run, maybe one of them should DM instead.

 

[Asmor]

Four words every DM should know, regardless of game or genre: "A wizard did it."

If that doesn't work, use the other four: "Rocks fall, everyone dies."

 

[Aaron]

Really don't want this to come across as snarky.....but the fact that you feel the need to defend your campaign from your players "breaking" it with stuff like this doesn't particularly sound like a great way to get the campaign off on the right foot.

Wouldn't a more productive tactic be to go to your players and say, "I really want to play in Eberron, and I want it to be a fun, thrilling set of adventures for all of us. I know you in the past have picked apart perceived inconsistencies, but for this campaign I'd really like for you to avoid doing that, so we can all enjoy the story, adventure, and camaraderie without getting caught up in stuff that will likely have very little impact on how we play."

Yeah, these guys don't sound like they want to play in Eberron. That said, I don't think I'd want to DM for them anyway; this is a two-way street and if they can't get on-board with what the DM wants to run, maybe one of them should DM instead.

It's my point that came across in the wrong way: my players (and I, for that matters) like to play in a world where the suspension of disbelief is full. And for us there aren't many threats to the SoD like inconsistencies.
If the people populating the world around you act like fools, and if the world is full of illogical aspects, well... for us it's hard to immerge ourselves into it.

Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against players and DMs acting like you suggest: it's just we like to play in a different way.

Now, time for the supposed inconsistencies:

1.) Teleportation circle is a 9th level spell, meaning for Eberron purposes it would be so stupidly rare and expensive that it just isn't feasible for House Orien to set up that sort of service.

IIRC House Orien has magical ships like the elemental galleons that cost 64,000 GP, and air ships that are around 92,000 GP, not to mention magical trains, which generally require a caster level 15.

Aren't those magical items expensive?

Not to mention that a Permanency spell on Teleportation Circle would be free, XP apart.

1) Probably, there's never been a 17+ level wizard in the history of House Orien. Heck, Mordain is probably the most powerful spellcaster in the last millennium, and he's only 18th.

Well, it looks like they have 15 CL spellcasters (where are they???), so it doesn't appear to be so impossible to imagine a 17th level spellcaster in 1000 years.

Talking about spellcasters, Oalian is a 20th Druid.

2) Probably most members of the Knights Phantom don't have the PrC. It's probably only the greatest Knight Phantom of all time who gains the upper levels of that PrC.

To be fair, it was probably a mistake for Eberron to use PrCs for their original concept (member of a special organization) when the game was designed around low-level NPCs, and PrCs had already moved beyond the organization niche by 2004.

For any particular PrC, I would assume only a bare handful (<10) exist of any particular one in all of Eberron.

That's what I was inclined to say too, but Five Nations even provide a quote from a Karrnathi soldier suggesting a Knight Phantom division during the Last War (page 43).

Anyway, I agree with you: the abundance of PrCs (read: crunch that help WotC sell books) and their original concept don't mesh well with the setting.

 

[MarkB]

Besides that, PC spellcasters could become rapidly rich attaining a level sufficient to cast Teleport, and offering their service.

Or insert any other high-level spell name in there. Yes, high level magic is rare and therefore valuable, which means that any high-level spellcaster could potentially sell their services at a premium. That's not an inconsistency so much as a feature of the setting. The best way to deal with it, if it comes up, is to use it to generate plot hooks.

Aside from aggressive reactions from the trading houses, there are any number of potential consequences for this. The PCs could become victims of their own success, with demand for their services swiftly outstripping the number of spells they could possibly memorise - and since theirs is a premium service, they could find that the people they're having to refuse services to are some of the most influential in Khorvaire, and very easily offended.

Or throw in a moral dilemma - do they teleport that cargo of highly-perishable medicine into the plague-stricken village on the border of the Mournland, knowing that the charitable organisation pleading for them to do so can't come close to paying the going rate and that they may be quarantined on arrival if they do so, or do they go for the easy buck transporting a wealthy nobleman to his nephew's birthday party for a sky-high fee, knowing that they may be condemning hundreds or even thousands to a prolonged, disease-stricken demise?

 

[Embermage]

1) House Orien, that has been around for hundreds of years, offers expensive magical trains, but doesn't have a teleportation circle network between the major Metropolis and Cities; I don't get it.
Besides that, PC spellcasters could become rapidly rich attaining a level sufficient to cast Teleport, and offering their service.

You mean, exactly like House Orien? That's what the Greater Mark of Passage is for, and that's what they do with it. There's already the equivalent of a multi-billion dollar corporation in that line of work. A PC spellcaster selling teleports in competition with House Orien is the equivalent of deciding you'll be millionaires by competing with Boeing to make planes. That said, if that's what your PCs want to do, there are definitely some interesting roleplaying opportunities down that road, as the ruthless corporation and its allies in the Twelve collude to drive them out of business.

2) Eberron is supposed to be a low level type campaign. We read that "in a world where the average soldier is a 2nd-level warrior, a 5th-level fighter can be an important individual. This is the case in Eberron."
However, we also read, for example, in Five Nations (page 41) that, even if their number is diminished, "the knight phantoms remain in service to the Aundair crown after the end of the last war".

The point is, in order to qualify for the Knight Phantom PrC you must be at least a 5th level wizard, or a 6th level sorcerer, or a 7th level bard. According to Keith, these should be all important individuals. How many Knight Phantoms serve the crown at the moment?

The same goes for the myriad of PrCs scattered in the Eberron books: they usually require a character of at least 5th level. How many of them can I assume existent at the moment?

Yeah, there's a disconnect between the prestige class title and the occupation; most Knight Phantoms and Dark Lanterns are not members of those prestige classes, but are working on meeting the prerequisites. It really isn't that different from assassins in any other world - the vast majority of people who kill for hire are unlikely to possess levels in the assassin prestige class.

But the fundamental premise isn't that Eberron is a low-level world. There are threats at every level, well into high levels and even epics. Low-level characters don't stand much of a chance in Dal Quor, Xoriat, or Argonessen, where great wyrm dragons run around with a dozen class levels.

The idea is that Eberron is a world where low-level characters matter. Why should the kingdom hire adventurers to deal with minor problems, when they have a battalion of mid- to high-level Knights Phantom that can ride out and handle it the same day? But when you only have a handful of those guys, and they all have day-to-day duties to handle and subordinates to oversee, hiring a few local adventurers to deal with a nuisance halfway across the realm makes a lot more sense.

The campaign world isn't perfect, by any means. As the DM, you're going to have to invent aspects of the setting to fill in gaps in the books. That's the case with any campaign setting. But the idea of having far, far fewer mid- and high-level NPCs than other settings is intended to make the PCs heroes in a world that needs them, rather than errand boys for Elminster.

 

[Klaus]

I'm going to start a new campaign (3.5) as a DM, and (finally) it will be in Eberron.

(Un)fortunately I have a group of players extremely adept at finding plot and/or setting inconsistencies.

That's the reason why I have to verify what inconsistencies Eberron hides behind its wonderful scenario, and I'm asking help to the EnWorld crew to find (and possibly solve) them beforehand.

Maybe I should start citing a bunch of them I think I have found:

1) House Orien, that has been around for hundreds of years, offers expensive magical trains, but doesn't have a teleportation circle network between the major Metropolis and Cities; I don't get it.
Besides that, PC spellcasters could become rapidly rich attaining a level sufficient to cast Teleport, and offering their service.

2) Eberron is supposed to be a low level type campaign. We read that "in a world where the average soldier is a 2nd-level warrior, a 5th-level fighter can be an important individual. This is the case in Eberron."
However, we also read, for example, in Five Nations (page 41) that, even if their number is diminished, "the knight phantoms remain in service to the Aundair crown after the end of the last war".

The point is, in order to qualify for the Knight Phantom PrC you must be at least a 5th level wizard, or a 6th level sorcerer, or a 7th level bard. According to Keith, these should be all important individuals. How many Knight Phantoms serve the crown at the moment?

The same goes for the myriad of PrCs scattered in the Eberron books: they usually require a character of at least 5th level. How many of them can I assume existent at the moment?

There you go.

House Orien *does* have teleportation circles. They're the big unicorn sigils in the middle of their passage houses, heavily guarded against unauthorized use, and only Orien heirs can access them. There's a whole scene centered on that in Keith Baker's novel The Fading Dream.

As for PCs getting rich selling their spells, sure. If that's what they want, you just say "for the rest of your careers you earn your upkeep by selling your spells. End campaign. Now who wants to play some heroes

As for the Knight Phantoms (and all other organizations), they're a plot point. Not all NPCs will ever qualify for the Prestige Class, as NPCs and PCs are different things.