Eberron: My issue with the 4e setting

[Asmor]

My biggest issue was that any race can have any Dragonmark.

According to the book any race can have any mark. It would be really easy to change in one's game, but that's not the point of the thread.

According to the book, as well, this is something that is incredibly rare and also potentially troublesome for the so-marked, as not only is it an aberrant mark but it also threatens whichever house's toes they've inadvertently stepped on.

I actually have a PC in my game who's got such a mark, a Kalashtar with the mark of healing. I discussed it with him beforehand and he understands all the ramifications that come with that. He's playing them up, in fact, as the dragonmark is on his bald head, necessitating him to keep a hood on at all times.

Let's just say that it's a plot point I fully intend to utilize in the future

The warforged encounter power is also very odd, in that it makes you play a game of chicken about when to activate it (more HP now, or even more HP later?) for reasons that seem pointless. How is this tactically interesting?

You just answered your own question! How is an ability which has a built-in game of chicken daring you to delay activating not interesting??? As a huge fan of warforged, I'm quite happy with the 4e treatment of them, particularly all the nifty things they get like final messengers, shoulder- and arm-mounted crossbows, etc.

 

[Spatula]

They screwed up the Dragonmarks.

I've been reading through all the 4e Eberron stuff (just finished the Dragonmarks chapter of the ECS) and really, really like the 4e books, overall. But... I hate the way Dragonmarks work. In fact, they totally suck.

All 4e Dragonmarks do is augment existing abilities.

That's not true at all. As far as NPCs and the houses are concerned, the true value of the marks is going to lie with the ritual aspects. The minor combat enhancements that the marks carry are rather petty in comparison. A house Jorasco healer doesn't have to be a bard or a cleric or any class at all - he/she can perform healing rituals that remove diseases and bring the dead back to life... not to mention that the mark enhances the Heal skill as well as healing powers...

 

[AllisterH]

Weird....

I found Dragonmarks to actually be useful this time around...In 3e, the dragonmark, while good for a commoner, was pretty much a fluff ability for one of that class.

Prime example being the Mark of Healing.

In 3e, if you were a cleric already, the mark was superfluous (CLW 1 per day? Really to a 10th level cleric? Hell, a 2ND level cleric wouldn't notice it). Now, the mark is useful for both commoners and clerics. Very good redesign IMO.

As for Warforged, um, I thought the consensus was that the warforged were one of the stronger races around...

 

[Dragonblade]

I hated the Dragonmarks in 3e. They were totally worthless. In 4e, the Dragonmark feats are actually worth taking as a PC, IMO.

 

[Turtlejay]

Yes, but that means you have to wait until 1/3 to 1/2 through a typical campaign before the Marked flavor really comes on strong. Especially when 3e Eberron was generally supposed to be lower level than other settings, this is unsatisfactory.

If a halfling gravitates toward Cleric or Bard because of his mark, I want the mark to be given more attension than his deity or voice -- especially early on.

If I remember right (and it has been awhile) you had to take a series of feats for your dragonmark to be anything beyond a daily cantrip. Lesser, least, greater? That is your 1st, 3rd, and 6th level feats (if all you did was buy those feats). 6/20ths of the game is 30%, or a little less than 1/3 of the game.

About that time you would be eligible for the PrC associated, too. Contrast that with the 4e version, requiring one feat and automatically gaining entrance to the Paragon Path 1/3 of the way through. I fail to see your point.

Also remember that the world and PC's run on different spheres, meaning that an NPC of the house Jorasco with the mark of healing *does not have the feat*. He has the Mark of Healing. He has the DM or story driven ability to heal as much or as little as needed. Perhaps his Syberys mark can remove disease or heal someone on their deathbed.

That, coupled with the well pointed out fact that the feat grants access to rituals, the true power behind the mark, and I'm thinking the new system is pretty comprehensive in it's betterness.

Jay

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is true -- as far as it goes.

The flavor, however, is that all the Cleric's powers come from his deity. That means that a 10th level cleric has (according to p143 of the DMG and the class abilities of the cleric in PHB) 12-13 powers attributable to his deity, while the Mark of Healing doesn't actually give him any, only augments existing powers (slightly). Even then, the Mark doesn't do jack during the short rests between encounters because few conditions last beyond the encounter.

Flavorwise, the reason you became an Artificer or Cleric is because your house steered you in that direction the moment you showed your Dragonmark. And if your Dragonmark manifested after your choice - it was the Dragon Prophecy that predicted what you would became, and eventually "decided" to acknowledge your destiny with the mark.

 

[Pseudonym]

... or running into invalid Dragonmarks on the Internet chats/games becomes frequent ...

Genasi with the Mark of Storm are popular on the WotC Char Ops board.

 

[Mercule]

Also remember that the world and PC's run on different spheres, meaning that an NPC of the house Jorasco with the mark of healing *does not have the feat*.

I, personally, have a huge beef with NPCs having abilities the PCs don't. I don't mind (kinda like, actually) that 4e uses a streamlined mechanic for NPCs to represent the same things PCs can do. The number one thing that ticked me off about 1e and 2e, though, was abilities NPCs got because they were NPCs. So, you're correct that the NPC doesn't have the feat, because feats are a PC mechanic. Please let me know how the PC can learn to do what the NPC can do, though.

This is, again, where a multiclass path or something similar might be of value for the Dragonmarks. If there was some breadth to how the Mark manifested in PCs, it'd be no big deal that NPCs don't manifest the way PCs do -- no two people manifest exactly the same. But, all PC Jorascos manifest the same way, so all NPC Jorascos should too.

 

[Mercule]

Genasi with the Mark of Storm are popular on the WotC Char Ops board.

You, sir, have made me sad.

 

[Imban]

I, personally, have a huge beef with NPCs having abilities the PCs don't. I don't mind (kinda like, actually) that 4e uses a streamlined mechanic for NPCs to represent the same things PCs can do. The number one thing that ticked me off about 1e and 2e, though, was abilities NPCs got because they were NPCs. So, you're correct that the NPC doesn't have the feat, because feats are a PC mechanic. Please let me know how the PC can learn to do what the NPC can do, though.

Gotta agree with this, really. I DM a 3e game, but when I'm making villains, sometimes I give them abilities or shortcuts that are not, as such, available to the PCs. For instance, enemies who use buffs usually have them factored into their stats as "permanent" effects that they either cast before battle, or instantly cast as soon as the battle begins, rather than my writing their base stats, having them cast buffs before battle, and then modifying those stats when the NPC in question has a 90% chance of not living to see any other battles.

Some NPCs also have abilities the PCs can't get, such as having three times the maximum HP for no reason, or taking two sets of actions each round, or being able to roll every turn to shrug off status effects. This is because they're bosses, and I find it just makes the game more fun. (And, well, my games are somewhat based off of japanese RPGs anyway.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't give my NPCs the ability to Greater Teleport (as per the 3e spell) as a non-action that can be used during other players' turns in 4e, where long-distance teleportation is restricted, because I'd feel bad about it and my players would lynch me. Sure, the same japanese RPGs do this too, but there it causes players to go "Why can't WE do that?" after the villain just instantly teleports out of the battlefield after being reduced to 0 HP instead of "Oh hey, that was a fun boss fight." after they wore down the boss's 288 HP over 4-5 rounds instead of just smiting it low in one round.