Eberron...pulp fantasy?

[Faraer]

The contents of the pulps are too broad to fit into a single style, either. While of course it's possible to make some generalizations about these stories, the modern stereotype of 'pulp fiction' is not the same as any that existed 60+ years ago. It's arbitrarily selective, excludes several pulp genres almost entirely, and includes elements that didn't originate in the pulps but were general at the time. And of course it's defined by how it differs from current norms, so says as much about modern fiction as what it's supposedly describing. My main objection to it is that it lets a lot of people think they know about the pulps and so dismiss them unread. If that's not you, but you find some use for the idea of 'pulp fiction', fine.

 

[iwatt]

I was first exposed to the term "pulp" in these boards. So like The Shaman, I've always been confused by people's different descriptions of something as "pulp".

So let me get this straight:

- "pulp fiction" is stuff that was written in pulp magazines.

This is about the only point in which everyone is in agreement. There then is an attempt by some people to define the "pulp" style or genre. Thing is, from the examples given on what is pulp, about the only common thread I've seen is that they are fun stories to read. Maybe "fast paced" is another common thread, although I'm not sure the detective stories are really that fast paced.

Am I wrong here? Color me confused. Every time someone tries to sell me on Eberron they say it's cool because it "pulp" . But then they can't define "pulp".

 

[Glyfair]

This is about the only point in which everyone is in agreement. There then is an attempt by some people to define the "pulp" style or genre. Thing is, from the examples given on what is pulp, about the only common thread I've seen is that they are fun stories to read. Maybe "fast paced" is another common thread, although I'm not sure the detective stories are really that fast paced..

Thrilling tends to be another trend.

Looking at the pure definition is one thing, you are correct that anything published in a pulp magazine was technically pulp. However, you also have to look at the common assumptions about what is referred to when you are discussing pulp. If you are discussing football in the U.S. you can't discuss it including soccer, even though the term technically applies, because the common assumption here is that you are talking about "American football."

A common misconception is that 'pulp fiction' is limited in scope to 1940s adventure fiction in the vein of Indiana Jones. While such fiction is, in fact, encompassed under the heading of 'pulp fiction', the heading itself is by no means limited to describing only that type of fiction.

So, while there are many genres of pulp fiction (and I believe everything published in the pulps was considered "genre fiction"), when people talk about pulp fiction they are usually talking about "pulp adventure fiction."

 

[Faraer]

Ah, 'genre fiction', a cheap insult used by fans of certain genres to marginalize other genres.

 

[Glyfair]

Ah, 'genre fiction', a cheap insult used by fans of certain genres to marginalize other genres.

Well, it can be used that way. However, I was using it in a non-perjorative sense (fiction written to appeal specifically to fans of a specific genre).

 

[Faraer]

I didn't mean you were using it derogatively. But most fiction of whatever category is written to appeal to fans of a specific genre -- certainly the contents of the slicks were as much as the pulps, and 'general fiction' as much as fantasy/horror/SF.

 

[rounser]

All of that Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones and From Hell stuff in the front of the Eberron book is nonsense, IMO. These are adventures that could take place in any D&D setting involving faux-egyptian, pirate, urban or lost world elements. As a setting, IMO Eberron is too thematically confused by kitchen sinking everything to support any of them any better than normal, because even if there's more opportunity, the feel's not right.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, that's fair enough. By 'pulp' I don't know that Keith Baker really means actual pulp, since his examples given were mostly modern(ish) movies that were heavily influenced by a pulp style. A kind of neopulp, if you will adapted to a new medium.

 

[iwatt]

If you are discussing football in the U.S. you can't discuss it including soccer, even though the term technically applies, because the common assumption here is that you are talking about "American football."

What is this soccer you mention? There is only one sport called Fútbol, and it definetly involves only one player allowed to hold the ball in his hands. The rest must actually do what is implied by the sport's name .

Back on topic...

However, you also have to look at the common assumptions about what is referred to when you are discussing pulp.

This is exactly my point. There is enough different genres (or styles ) described as "pulp" that I belive using it really doesn't work as a descriptor.

For example:

- proffesor and a cop discover "something they weren't meant to know" (TM) and go insane.
- Wild and indomitable warrior defeats evil sorcerors and deflowers the girl.
- Great adventurer travels through undiscovered Africa and encounters hidden treasure and mystery.
- Tough archeologist races against the nazi threat to recover mystical artifacts.
- Smart gumshoe investigates the murder/theft of the Mcguffin...
- Adventurer travels through undiscovered MARS and encounters hidden treasure and mystery.

Are all examples given for this pulp "genre" (or style). But looking at that list I really can't see anything that connects them (except for the fact that they are stories I enjoy ).

 

[Klaus]

All of that Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones and From Hell stuff in the front of the Eberron book is nonsense, IMO. These are adventures that could take place in any D&D setting involving faux-egyptian, pirate, urban or lost world elements. As a setting, IMO Eberron is too thematically confused by kitchen sinking everything to support any of them any better than normal, because even if there's more opportunity, the feel's not right.

Except that in most other D&D settings, the PCs aren't necessarily special. A PC Fighter is just as good as an NPC Fighter of equal level.

Eberron takes a page from some pulp stories, and makes the PCs special. They're Heroes, a cut above everyone else, capable of achieving the impossible. They're larger-than-life in a way. And then introduces Action Points as a way of reflecting this.