ECL/LA just not working out for me

[Scion]

It's nearly impossible to balance many monster PCs throughout their entire progression as a character. It is a case of 'rate of growth.' ECL characters usually start weaker, but have a "faster" rate of growth due to often powerful racial features which cannot be duplicated by any level of PC.

Not entirely sure why you quoted me, as what you had to say pertains almost not at all to what I said.

My way gets around, bypasses, or solves all of these problems. As I have had no problems at all since I started doing it.

 

[mmu1]

Yeah, but can you banish and/or hedge out a lizardman?

You can have a race that's composed of Native Outsiders and bypass the whole issue, banishment is high-level and rather difficult to do, and hedging out only works if the thing's been summoned.

(I actually made a mistake earlier, BTW - Lizardmen are Humanoids, not Monstrous Humanoids. If they were the latter, the +2 ECL would be more justified, since Monstrous Humanoids actually get a Fighter's BAB and two good saves.)

Regardless, there are other races I could use to make the same point - according to the rules, two HD of "Dragon" (d12, good BAB, all good saves, 6 skill points per HD) are worth the same ECL as two HD of "Fey" (d6, poor BAB, two good saves, 2 skill points per HD). The ECL rules are absurd.

 

[iceifur]

How do you deal with this?

I've found that the buying off LA variant in Unearthed Arcana works out well for our group. Sure, it slows down the character's advancement a bit, but they'll catch up eventually.

-B-

 

[Warrior]

I'm struggling with the issue of Level Adjustment as well, mostly when it comes to character races (rather than monster characters). My primary concern is the loss of hit points...it just seems a little onerous in some cases. For example, I'm starting a new FR campaign and one of the players wants to be a winged elf (+3 LA). She'll be playing a ranger, but I'm worried that even with all the benefits the avariel recieves, 2d8 hit points puts her at a considerable disadvatantage for challenges appropriate for the party's level. I mean, even a 5th level wizard could potentially survive more damage than this character.

Has anyone here dealt with a similiar issue?

 

[mmu1]

I'm struggling with the issue of Level Adjustment as well, mostly when it comes to character races (rather than monster characters). My primary concern is the loss of hit points...it just seems a little onerous in some cases. For example, I'm starting a new FR campaign and one of the players wants to be a winged elf (+3 LA). She'll be playing a ranger, but I'm worried that even with all the benefits the avariel recieves, 2d8 hit points puts her at a considerable disadvatantage for challenges appropriate for the party's level. I mean, even a 5th level wizard could potentially survive more damage than this character.

Has anyone here dealt with a similiar issue?

I've made a couple of characters that had a significant LA: One was a Lizardman / Half Dragon fighter, the other an Imp rogue. The first one had such a high CON (in part because of the racial bonuses, in part because of what stat I assigned to CON and what items I bought at character creation) and such an insanely high AC because of the Natural Armor he could get by until he picked up some more Hit Dice. The second one had Regeneration.

In this case - a character with a +3 LA from a relatively fragile race - there's really nothing she can do, other than approach the combat like she was a 2nd edition Mage, and pray for luck. 5th level is at least three or four levels too early for a +3 LA character...

 

[glass]

According to WotC, Lizardmen would have the same ECL if you kept their racial abilities and LA, and instead gave them two Hit Dice of Outsider, with a fighter BAB and all good saves - which is obviously nonsense.

IMHO If they had outsider or dragon hit dice the LA should be higher, and everything I have seen from WoTC seems to support this view.

Who or what from WoTC indicated otherwise to you?


glass.

 

[mmu1]

IMHO If they had outsider or dragon hit dice the LA should be higher, and everything I have seen from WoTC seems to support this view.

Who or what from WoTC indicated otherwise to you?

glass.

The whole chapter in Savage Species on determining the LA of a creature, for example - many factors are mentioned, but what kind of HD the creature gets is not one of them.

ECL is simply always assumed to be LA + Hit Dice.

Granted, the LA is usually higher for dragons or outsiders than for humanoids, but that's because those creatures usually have more special abilities, not because you pay some kind of LA premium for having a better HD.