ECL of Swarm Shifter Ghoul

[takasi]

What is the ECL of a 2nd level swarm shifter wild elven ghoul ranger?

I'm thinking it's 7, but I'm not sure.

Does the swarm shifter template (Libris Mortis) increase the LA?

And do you apply anything from the base race to the final character? The racial description from Libris Mortis mentions the base speed, but nothing of other abilities. For example, would a Raptoran ghoul (by the raw) be able to fly at higher levels?

 

[frankthedm]

Does the swarm shifter template (Libris Mortis) increase the LA?

If the template does not list a LA, it is not intended as a PC or a cohort.

 

[takasi]

Lame. How do you determine the APL for XP purposes if such a creature assists the party? Guess you can wing it (the system is just an approximation anyway) but there's no reason why they couldn't add an LA. Any suggestions for the swarm shifter template?

 

[Fieari]

That said, Upper_Krust has rules for making ANYTHING have an ECL/LA. I'll apply them here for you.

Gravetouched Ghoul is LA+2 by WotC's standards, +3 by U_K's
Swarmshifter is LA+9 (rounding up, +8 rounding down, but LAs always round up to discourage people from taking them)

So, your character would be ECL 13, ECL 14 using U_K's LA for the Ghoul.

Yes, it's a bit high, but swarm form is amazingly useful, especially for PCs.

 

[takasi]

Thanks!

Does it matter what swarm type it is?

What about the undead body part swarm?

I thought it would be neat to have the ghoul fall into a bunch of body parts (and according to the template you get a huge disguise check to be able to distinguish the swarm form from a normal 'swarm') that falls apart during an attack to feint/bluff opponents.

Is this form especially useful to a PC? What are some ways to use this that would 'break' encounters?

Do you have a link for this method of determining LA?

 

[Fieari]

You can get the system here: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php...68&postcount=42

Note that as written, it follows the stated rule that CR always equals ECL. As this is clearly not true, if you instead follow the rule that CR = a moderate challenge for an a party of ECL = CR, then this guide instead gives you just the ECL part... so everywhere it says CR, read ECL instead. CR can then be determined by applying the general rule of CR = 2/3 ECL, which almost always works. (Dragon CR = 1/2 ECL, to inflate draconic power)

Hrm. The difference between the swarms does matter...

For Fine/Diminutive swarms, it's +8 (a miscalculation earlier, as I forgot to apply the ability score changes), and for tiny swarms (like rats), it's only +4. The big difference is weapon immunity versus resistance while in the form. That's huge.

 

[gnfnrf]

Lame. How do you determine the APL for XP purposes if such a creature assists the party? Guess you can wing it (the system is just an approximation anyway) but there's no reason why they couldn't add an LA. Any suggestions for the swarm shifter template?

In 3.5, you don't use average party level to calculate experience.

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gnfnrf