ECL of wealth?

[nameless]

I was sitting by myself one day going, "Self, why do we have rules for ECL based on ability scores and such, but not for characters with extra magic items?" Yes, I sit by myself and say these things.

The question is, how much extra wealth would you need to grant an ECL of varying ratings to a PC? Also, should that wealth be on a sliding scale (i.e. the character gets wealth of a character X4 levels higher for ECL +1) or simply a numerical rating (i.e. 20,000 gp for ECL +1)?

If I were to develop a rule on this, wouldn't it also be prudent to develop a rule for alternate ability score generation and ECL (i.e. 15 more points on point buy for ECL+1, or getting to reroll 1's and 2's on 4d6 drop lowest)?

Also, I was thinking of a reliable way to generate ECLs for playing as various nonstandard races, especially custom ones. I was considering tying in the wealth ECL to this, and guesstimating how much magic items to grant racial abilities would cost. Frex, Drow would get +2 twice (the dex and con is a wash) at 4000 gp each, SR at some other cost, and their spells and Will save bonus at a final cost, then credit them back a little for Light Blindness. Assuming magic items are balanced amongst each other, this seems like a fairly universal system to me. All we need is a magic formula.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Seems pretty obvious...

An ECL for wealth is basically equivalent to the level you'd get that wealth...

So 9,000 extra GP would be +5 ECL or somesuch.

Maybe that doesn't work. But it's an idea.

 

[Mark]

I'm not sure about doing this directly with wealth, but you might be able to work with this ECL Calculating system, substituting out the magic items powers for special powers or spell-like abilities-

http://uenics.evansville.edu/~jc84/DD3/Monster_ECL.htm

Hope that helps!

 

[nameless]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let's take an example of a level 5 character with a Ring of Invisibility in addition to his normal assortment of minor magic items. That extra 40,000 gp item has a fairly significant effect on his power level, and is almost 5 times his suggested wealth by itself. Is it fair to assign an ECL to him based on the extra wealth? After all, his power level might be comparable to a level 6 or 7 character (almost definitely not +3, since he could have three actual wizard levels at that point). The same comparison might apply to a level 1 character with a +1 sword.

I think there could be a crunchable formula for extra wealth based on level. My comment about race ECL is based on the fact that you could treat racial bonuses as magic item bonuses for cost, and crunch from there using the same, universal system.

On one hand, I could say something like (ECL modifier)^2 * 10,000 gp in bonus wealth. This skews the bonus towards low levels, but right around the middle of both levels and ECL seems pretty balanced. At the high end, it breaks as well.

On the other hand, you could say he counts as (ECL modifier) * 2 levels higher when calculating standard wealth. This gives a low return at low levels, but scales well as levels increase. On the downside, it may seem artificial or metagamey to give extra treasure to a character. Perhaps as proportionate wealth decreases, the ECL is scaled back and eventually lost.

 

[Mark]

The page I pointed you to suggests that with a creature, while figuring their ECL, you add +0.5 to the ECL calculation for a spell-like abilty of medium power (2nd or 3rd level spell). That sounds reasonable to me. If there are other items involved, then perhaps it goes up a bit higher. A Ring of Invisibility is great in some circumstances, but in some others it may be virtually worthless, so I wouldn't throw too much into it. Am I still missing the point?

(You might ask this be moved to the Rules Forum where I think you'll get more than enough advice... Just click on the report this post to a moderator on yourself and it'll get moved like the wind, I'll bet. )

 

[nameless]

I meant an entirely new system for figuring ECL, not the reverse-engineered calculator. Since magic items can give attribute bonuses, feats, skill bonuses, spell-like abilities, save bonuses, DR, SR, movement bonuses, and other such things that races also may have. Since magic items have a definite codified cost structure, it seems like a good mathematical way to calculate ECL without reinventing the wheel.

I wasn't posting it to the rules forum because it falls more under the realm of house rules, in that respect. I presumed that the issue of ECL is a big enough umbrella to encompass multiple areas, but maybe it's more cut-and-dry than I imagined.

 

[Mark]

I see. I don't think it makes sense to abandon the old system entirely. I'll keep my eyes on the thread and chime in if I have any thoughts based on what other people come up with but at this point I'm at a loss. *shrug* Sorry.

 

[Blacksad]

You might want to check Four Color to Fantasy, you have a chart that give the equivalent between gp and power point, and hero are worth 8HrPs per level, so you just have to calculate how much wealth the character has above or under his recommanded value, check the chart to find the HrP value, and divide by 8 to find the ECL modification.

 

[mmu1]

I don't think it's possible to make a system like this work, because the actual value of various magic items varies so wildly depending on the character and the situation...

Would you change the ECL of someone wearing Glamered +3 Studded Leather? It costs a lot more, but he's probably not any harder to hit than someone wearing 1500 full plate and using a shield.
Do you raise someone's ECL because they have a Ring of Regeneration, valued at 80 or 90 thousand, and with next to no combat usefulness whatsoever?
Is a magical sword or a stat-boosting item someone isn't "entitled" to worth an ECL adjustment when a wizard of his level could have easily cast Magic Weapon or Bull's Stregth on him?
What makes for a higher Encounter Level, a 40K Ring of Invisibility, or a scroll of Improved Invisibility and the ability to use it?

 

[Mark]

Had another thought...

Certain magic items might be very useful at low levels but no longer useful at higher levels, yet their cash value does not change. This would have to be accounted for in a system such as this.