ECL Problems . . . HELP!

[Anubis]

This concept of an ECL (Effective Character Level) that can be found in the Manual of the Planes makes no sense! On top of that, it contradicts information in the DMG!

The DMG plainly and clearly states that monsters gain levels at the same rate as humans, and the monster's base levels is its Hit Dice. That means an ogre has a base "Level" of 4. In the DMG, ECL is only used to determine when these monsters should be allowed in the game.

MotP changes that, however, by assigning various races with an ECL that is to be that monster's base number of "Levels". By the rules in the DMG, aasimars and tieflings advance by class levels as normal humans do, with the 1st level being Level 1. By the rules in the MotP, they now start with 1,000 XP with one class level and need 3,000 to reach Level 2. This is clearly contradictory.

What's the deal with this crap? What do the rest of you do about it?

 

[Anubis]

Oh, and if MotP is correct, which I don't think it is, but if it is, that screws up CRs for all creatures made in this fashion!

It would also screw up calculations for average party level and all other level-dependent factors.

 

[CRGreathouse]

On top of that, it contradicts information in the DMG!

The MotP information is based on the ECL rules from the FRCS. These rules work better in actual play and will be the basis for future works (including Tooth and Claw).

 

[CRGreathouse]

that screws up CRs for all creatures made in this fashion!

No, ECL is only for PCs. CR is for NPCs and monsters.

 

[Archer]

OMG,

There are already huge threads on this topic. The DMG is the obsolete way. The FRCS, MoP, T&C (tooth and claw) and everything printed in the future will use the new way.

 

[Anubis]

Why are they doing that? Some of those seem WAY too weak when figured like that. Aasimars and tieflings have a couple of abilities, but not enough to warrant them being considered an entire level higher.

Here's another question. If the MotP is the "right" way, why aren't ALL monsters listed? How are we supposed to know the ECL for monsters not listed?

 

[Archer]

They were all published in Dragon Magazine and will be reprinted in T&C. Seriously, there are 500+ posts already on this topic in about 3 other recent threads.

 

[Anubis]

Well, I don't get Dragon, so I have no way of finding this information. Unless you guys are willing to help me here . . .

I need ECLs for vampires, a half-water elemental, a fiendish human, a half-air elemental, and ogres.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I need ECLs for vampires, a half-water elemental, a fiendish human, a half-air elemental, and ogres.

Vampire ECL 5
Ogres ECL 8
Fiendish ECL 2

I'm not sure about half-elementals.

 

[Caliber]

I asked a similar question about Half-Elementals recently and my answers put them at about +5, the same as Half-Celestials and Half-Fiends. Seeing as Aasmiar and Tiefling ECLs match Gensai ECLs, I don't find it that far of a jump.