Ecology of the Dragonborn up

[Fenes]

I disagree. A yuan-ti abomination couldn't walk down the street in old FR without havoc ensuing. A lizardman would draw a crowd or maybe fleeing onlookers, and probably the watch. A drow would have to keep a very low profile as well (usually stay hooded). Not even D&D logic is with you on this one.

WOTC can change this, but I think it's silly of them. It's too wahoo for the implied setting of D&D for this to be a core PC race, IMO.

True. Also, if lizardfolk is so integrated, then that also changes the whole dynamic of the setting. It gets more Sigil, less "calssic D&D fantasy world". And invariably, the more common exotic stuff like lizardfolk is, the less exotic and special the rest of the world feels. I don't really like this - I prefer to play in settings where society is not generally as cosmopolitan as in Sigil, and where sigil is the exception, not the norm.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I disagree. A yuan-ti abomination couldn't walk down the street in old FR without havoc ensuing. A lizardman would draw a crowd or maybe fleeing onlookers, and probably the watch. A drow would have to keep a very low profile as well (usually stay hooded). Not even D&D logic is with you on this one.

WOTC can change this, but I think it's silly of them. It's too wahoo for the implied setting of D&D for this to be a core PC race, IMO.

But why would Drow have to keep low-profile? Or Lizardfolk?

It's not because of their looks. It is because they are usually evil! Drow occopy the Underdark and are usually only heard of when they are trying to conquer the surface world or go Elf-hunting. Lizardfolk constantly battle against human villagers because they want to expand their territory.

Dragonborn once had a major Empire that was considered mostly benevolent and progressive. They fought a Tiefling Empire that was ruled by Devils and oppressed non-Tielflings And these days, they often work as mercenaries helping out cities or villages to defend against Drow or Lizardfolk.

If anyone should be looked upon with hatred or fear, it might be Tieflings. But Tieflings have lost their Empire, and they haven't tried to rebuild it or continue fighting. They have built new communities with humans and were probably part of the last, human Empire as well.

The trick of the Tieflings and Dragonborn is that they did not isolate themselves from the other races - Lizardfolk and Drow never did that. They are foreign to most, and they are usually at odds with "normal" communities.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

True. Also, if lizardfolk is so integrated, then that also changes the whole dynamic of the setting. It gets more Sigil, less "calssic D&D fantasy world". And invariably, the more common exotic stuff like lizardfolk is, the less exotic and special the rest of the world feels. I don't really like this - I prefer to play in settings where society is not generally as cosmopolitan as in Sigil, and where sigil is the exception, not the norm.

Lizardfolks aren't integrated, though. Neither are Drow. They are still aggressive, isolationist folk always fighting the "good people".

But in regards to Dragonborn or Tieflings, sure, 4E PoL is more "Sigil" then "Warhammer".

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Why? Unless they just appeared recently out of nowhere (FR 4E) most humans know by now that they are civilized and got used to them, as they got used to Halflings and Eladrin.
Especially in the PoL setting Dragonborn are known far and wide because of their history.

Who are you and what have you done to Derrens account?!

 

[Fenes]

Why? Unless they just appeared recently out of nowhere (FR 4E) most humans know by now that they are civilized and got used to them, as they got used to Halflings and Eladrin.
Especially in the PoL setting Dragonborn are known far and wide because of their history.

That's exactly what I consider a negative - the setting loses a lot of its appeal if people are used to lizardfolk in society. It's just a touch too fantastic, and raises the bar too much for other things to be exotic, IMHO.

 

[Hussar]

On the whole "abomination" thing.

You're telling me that there's no problems with extremely magical virtually imortal races walking down the street, but, see a lizard man and people go screaming?

I think not.

 

[Fenes]

On the whole "abomination" thing.

You're telling me that there's no problems with extremely magical virtually imortal races walking down the street, but, see a lizard man and people go screaming?

I think not.

What races are extremely magical and virtually immortal, and walking down the street? Neither dwarves, nor elves, nor eladrin are immortal, and all are not really "extremely magical", not compared to a human/halfling/whatever wizard.

 

[Derren]

That's exactly what I consider a negative - the setting loses a lot of its appeal if people are used to lizardfolk in society. It's just a touch too fantastic, and raises the bar too much for other things to be exotic, IMHO.

If you prefer traditional Tolkien fantasy (everything civilized looks like humans) ok, but things like Eladrin are far more exotic than Dragonborn because of their fey nature.
Also I think many humans would feel more uncomfortable when among Halflings (because they remind humans of children, but act like adults. A classic horror theme) than when around Dragonborn (who mostly have a good reputation, depending on the campaign world, and are clearly not humans).

 

[Fenes]

If you prefer traditional Tolkien fantasy (everything civilized looks like humans) ok, but things like Eladrin are far more exotic than Dragonborn because of their fey nature.
Also I think many humans would feel more uncomfortable when among Halflings (because they remind humans of children, but act like adults. A classic horror theme) than when around Dragonborn (who mostly have a good reputation, depending on the campaign world, and are clearly not humans).

I actually hate Tolkien (Tried three times to read the trilogy, never made it further than book 2), I prefer grittier Sword and Sorcery settings.

Eladrin look far more human than lizards. But yes, I'd not have such fey be part of civilised society either - my humans are more xenophobic than the idealised, star trek-like people in the PoL setting of 4E.

 

[Derren]

Eladrin look far more human than lizards.

Yes, but their mindset is much more alien.
Humans and Dragonborns have more or less the same mindset. Eladrin on the other hand have think in completely alien ways as they live much longer and are fey.

Dragonborn look more scary at first, but unless they are complete strangers and the humans have never heard of them they would imo be more fearful of Eladrin because of their strange powers, nature and way of thinking.