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economic systems? Anyone?

Droogie

Explorer
There's a nice little economic system in Expeditious Retreat's Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. Nice, but I think it could use some refinement. As that book is open content, has anyone developed a similar system based on those rules? I have some ideas of my own but I was wondering if anyone has already taken a crack at it to save myself some work. :)
 

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What is the MMS:WE system - how complex is it and how does it work?

I've got my own homebrew system for running "societies" that basically gives each group four ability scores (Parameters) namely: Productivity, Authority, Culture, Might/(Military) determined by rolling 3d6 (3-18)

These are then used to check against various DCs. The Economic System works on the basis of Harvest for each season and determines the DC = Expected Yeild/Labour
 

Tonguez said:
What is the MMS:WE system - how complex is it and how does it work?

I've got my own homebrew system for running "societies" that basically gives each group four ability scores (Parameters) namely: Productivity, Authority, Culture, Might/(Military) determined by rolling 3d6 (3-18)

These are then used to check against various DCs. The Economic System works on the basis of Harvest for each season and determines the DC = Expected Yeild/Labour
Its not so much a kingdom-wide economic system - its more of a way to simulate one when the party walks into town to buy torches and armor.

Essentially, the PCs make a purchase roll, which is a d20 modified by the size of the community and the price of the item vs. the DC for the item. The PCs can add a final buyer's modifier to the roll to try to get the item at a good price - for example, if the sorcerer was looking for a diamond to purchase, he could take a -16 modifier to the roll to see if he could find one at a 20% discount from the typical base price. If he doesn't find one at this price, he can keep rolling, all the while adding increased bonuses to the purchase roll. The sorcerer could eventually find his diamond, but at up to 4x the price if he was rolling poorly.
It assumes that in a medieval society, there are no fixed prices-- essentially every price is negotiable.

The authors mention that some DM discretion is needed to decide whats available - you can't buy a ship in a mountain village, for example. Nor is the roll modified by any skills or abilities, but the authors say you can fiddle with the system to make it so.

What I really need the system for is to provide a certain randomness to what kind of magic items the PCs can purchase in town, since 3rd edition now assumes that purchasing magic is not only possible but perhaps mandatory. I don't like the idea of PCs running to the alchemists to pick up a six-pack ofcure moderate wounds potions with no trouble. I don't envision that kind of mass production in my pre-industrial campaign world, so I think some random rolls would provide a bit of verisimilitude and balance (and of course, some fun).

Anyway, it's a nice system, but I guess what I like the least about it is the 7-page chart of purchase DCs with everything from bastard swords to glass wine bottles. What it really needs are purchase DCs for magic items, but there aren't any. The item price modifier takes care of this somewhat, but I think the whole thing could be simplified somehow--- say DC 10 for mundane items, DC 15 for magic. The less pawing through pages, the better.

As the authors suggest, I'd like to get the PCs skills and abilities involved in the rolls somehow. Tying the roll to a single skill might be overpowering, but a wisdom check modified with 5 ranks in this or that skill could fit the bill.

I was thinking of dividing the purchase roll into two rolls instead of one - roll once for availability, modified by price, community size, and other modifiers (rarity, ranks in gather information, etc). Next, make the haggle roll - modify if you have ranks in diplomacy or bluff, appraisal, blah blah. High rollers get the good prices.
 

I like the sound of your realm management system, BTW. It basically extrapolates a character stat block into an entire nation, right?

Population is like HPs? The actual size or area of the nation is like HD?

Special abilities? Feats? Castles, fortification, navy, and special tech like irrigation and aquaducts instead of arms and equipment?

Do large armies provide a bonus to the nation's "attack roll"? Do armies get used up like arrows in a quiver? Oohh now I'm getting some cool ideas.

So a small upstart barony is analogous to a first level commoner and a huge, evil empire is analogous to a balor demon!?!?!
 

For an excellent all-round treatment of economic systems on a large scale (and at varying levels of complexity) I can recommend nothing more highly than the venerable d20 Economic Systems by the venerable Old One of these message boards.

Oh look, I've got a copy here...
 

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Plane Sailing said:
For an excellent all-round treatment of economic systems on a large scale (and at varying levels of complexity) I can recommend nothing more highly than the venerable d20 Economic Systems by the venerable Old One of these message boards.

Oh look, I've got a copy here...

ah, thank you.
 

Droogie said:
What I really need the system for is to provide a certain randomness to what kind of magic items the PCs can purchase in town, since 3rd edition now assumes that purchasing magic is not only possible but perhaps mandatory. I don't like the idea of PCs running to the alchemists to pick up a six-pack ofcure moderate wounds potions with no trouble. I don't envision that kind of mass production in my pre-industrial campaign world, so I think some random rolls would provide a bit of verisimilitude and balance (and of course, some fun).

I've compromised. Everything's available per the rules but not right now. Want six CLW potions? Have that for you in about six days from now. A sword+3? Mmmm, come back in a month. Oh, and I'll need half the gold up front, please and thank you. Hey, that just covers my out of pocket expenses; I'm willing to put a part of myself into the item on your say-so. Give me lip and it'll be 100% up front and you'll see it in two months.

For random "what's sitting around" I simply roll up the population using the DMG system. Take the highest level adventurer, noble or adept and generate treasure for that CR and every susequent CR-2 until you hit 0. In other words, if you get a 10th level rogue as your highpoint, generate a CR10, CR8, CR6, CR4, and CR2 treasure. These are the items on hand people are willing to part with. Naturally there should be a lot more on hand, but those items the NPCs won't consider selling at the going price without a good reason, if at all.

So far it seems to work out ok for 5 minutes labor and mental effort.
 

kigmatzomat said:
I've compromised. Everything's available per the rules but not right now. Want six CLW potions? Have that for you in about six days from now. A sword+3? Mmmm, come back in a month. Oh, and I'll need half the gold up front, please and thank you. Hey, that just covers my out of pocket expenses; I'm willing to put a part of myself into the item on your say-so. Give me lip and it'll be 100% up front and you'll see it in two months.

For random "what's sitting around" I simply roll up the population using the DMG system. Take the highest level adventurer, noble or adept and generate treasure for that CR and every susequent CR-2 until you hit 0. In other words, if you get a 10th level rogue as your highpoint, generate a CR10, CR8, CR6, CR4, and CR2 treasure. These are the items on hand people are willing to part with. Naturally there should be a lot more on hand, but those items the NPCs won't consider selling at the going price without a good reason, if at all.

So far it seems to work out ok for 5 minutes labor and mental effort.

Rolling randomly out of the treasure tables had occured to me. I had initially tossed the idea aside thinking it would take to long, but if it works for you, maybe I'll give it a test the next time the situation arises.

I could make the players roll to make it more fun. It'll be like Vegas. :)
 

Droogie said:
I like the sound of your realm management system, BTW. It basically extrapolates a character stat block into an entire nation, right?

Population is like HPs? The actual size or area of the nation is like HD?

Yep exactly extrapolate the stat block to a 'group' so far I've run it at 'village' and barony levels but theoretically it should apply to anything from a guild to the Evil Empire.

And yes HP = Population, HD/Level is 'development level' of the nation (which means it can get bigger but might also mean it can produce more on the same area and thus gain higher population through better Productivity

NB* Productivity and Terrain are additional factors that affect all Groups ie a Nation in a desert area is likely to have less arable land then one in the temperate hills but might have a diamond supply

Special abilities? Feats? Castles, fortification, navy, and special tech like irrigation and aquaducts instead of arms and equipment?

Special Abilities amd Technologies (Naval Tech, Irrigation systems & Magic are technologies) are handled using 'Feat chains' and equipment = Holdings (Seaport, Plantations, Temples), Skills are also learnt and used as a character would (and can then be taught to individuals as part of the education system)

Admittedly I haven't developed the feats very much and only have a very few 'technology' feats other than those that grant skill bonuses

Do large armies provide a bonus to the nation's "attack roll"? Do armies get used up like arrows in a quiver? Oohh now I'm getting some cool ideas.

Armies in the system are either run as distinct sub-entities or else are effectively 'stat modifiers' so an Army will have its own BAb, AC and HP and Damage rates

So a small upstart barony is analogous to a first level commoner and a huge, evil empire is analogous to a balor demon!?!?!

Level 1 I'd say was a small guild, a small barony level 2 or 3 and yep the Dark Empire is a Balor Demon
 

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