Ecto Pupplet, why the high cost?

[Scion]

All right, the power is below. The last line of the power says, "The cost to manifest ecto puppet is equal to the cost of the astral construct power being emulated +2."

Why does it cost so much?? First of all you have to have 2 different powers chosen for it to even do anything. Then you have to give up all of your actions for up to the same duration as the spell would be normally. You are 'visibly tethered' so cant hide invisibly while doing this. Plus the benefits that are gained are nearly nil, especially at the level this spell would become useful while only costing 3, let alone the higher cost.

Can anyone explain this in a rational manner? or is this something I should go to houserules with and ask for a fix? I'm here first to see if people can explain a balance issue or something with the 'why'. Thanks all!




Ecto Puppet
Metacreativity (Int)
Level: Psion 2
Display: Au, Vi (see text)
Manifestation Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: A “tethered” astral construct of the highest level you can manifest
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 3
This power manifests an astral construct that is visibly tethered to the manifester, and the manifester directly controls its actions. It appears within 5 feet of the character and can move up to the noted range. The “tether” consists of light connecting the character’s hands with its forelimbs. Except for being visibly tethered, the astral construct is as normal.
The power creates an astral construct of the highest level possible, corresponding to the highest-level astral construct power the manifester knows. As a consequence of the direct control, the construct gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity, and a +2 enhancement bonus on Will saves.
The cost to manifest ecto puppet is equal to the cost of the astral construct power being emulated +2.

 

[Alchemist]

I'm going to say that the extra costs are relating to the fact that the psion has *direct* control over the astral construct, not unlike a puppet or an extension of your own body. Normally, the astral construct just fights or performs menial tasks. With this power, you could manifest a constrruct and manipulate the puzzle-levers that either open the door or seal off the room and fill it with death from the comfort of the adjoining hallway.

Direct command over a temporary physical form is worth concentrating and spendind a couple more PP's for, IMHO.

Edit: On top of it all, this power scales with your Astral Construct chain. That's a level of utility rarely seen in by-the-book psionics.

 

[Scion]

Astral Construct I
Power Points: 1
This power creates one 1st-level astral construct of solidified ectoplasm that attacks the manifester’s enemies. It appears where the manifester designates and acts immediately, on his or her turn. It attacks the manifester’s opponents to the best of its ability. The manifester can mentally direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. The astral construct acts normally on the last round of the power and dissipates at the end of its turn.
It is not necessary to learn a lower-level astral construct power before learning a higher-level version.


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It is already under your direct and continual mental command. You can give it continuous directions, and by useing a full round action you should be able to already tell it step by step what to do. There may be a slight penalty to some skills, but is it really worth useing one of your already very limited selection of powers to gain almost no additional benefit?

You can even send the summoned ones farther away, so you could direct it at a 'greater' distance. Where is the extra utility? If you cant see through the ecto puppets 'eyes' then you are better off in most ways just to use the regular construct.

 

[Staffan]

The utility is mostly in Ecto Puppet taking 1 action to manifest while Astral Construct takes a full round.

 

[Scion]

The utility is mostly in Ecto Puppet taking 1 action to manifest while Astral Construct takes a full round.

So you create this guy with a standard action, it appears 5 feet from you and can make a full round of actions. That is an advantage over Astral constructs true, but on the second round you either do nothing and tell it to do something or let it fade out and do something.

Only way I can see that being a real advantage is if you can give the construct such a cool, one use power, that it is worth using that single round. Looking through the book shows nothing there as terribly useful, so it'd have to be additional stuff as a houserule I suppose

I dont mean to be completely disparaging.. its just that this power seems to be nearly useless as written, it takes one of your limited number of powers to do things worse than you could before ;/ gah.. it just doesnt make any sense to me

 

[pingpong]

its my opinion that the only good use for Ectopuppet is with Trigger.

by the way, the visible tethers of light are considered Visible Displays, so with the appropriate Hide Display feat, you can get rid of the tethers.

 

[Alchemist]

Astral Construct I

It is already under your direct and continual mental command. You can give it continuous directions, and by useing a full round action you should be able to already tell it step by step what to do. There may be a slight penalty to some skills, but is it really worth useing one of your already very limited selection of powers to gain almost no additional benefit?

You can even send the summoned ones farther away, so you could direct it at a 'greater' distance. Where is the extra utility? If you cant see through the ecto puppets 'eyes' then you are better off in most ways just to use the regular construct.

A normal Astral Construct is indeed under your complete control, but I'm not certain that's the same thing as being under your direct control. Commanding a creature to "open the chest by pressing button #3 and #6 at the same time while whistling dixie" is probably not going to be well understood or performed by a being with no intelligence score. Enter the puppetry, where you bypass this problem and just do it yourself through it.

It really comes down, IMHO, to that Int - your construct has. It can't be commanded to perform any real tasks beyond "pick that up. Bring it here. Attack that one." and so on. YMMV, but *I* wouldn't let my players command unintelligent beings to perform tasks that require some sort of comprehension to them.

 

[Scion]

A normal Astral Construct is indeed under your complete control, but I'm not certain that's the same thing as being under your direct control. Commanding a creature to "open the chest by pressing button #3 and #6 at the same time while whistling dixie" is probably not going to be well understood or performed by a being with no intelligence score. Enter the puppetry, where you bypass this problem and just do it yourself through it.

It really comes down, IMHO, to that Int - your construct has. It can't be commanded to perform any real tasks beyond "pick that up. Bring it here. Attack that one." and so on. YMMV, but *I* wouldn't let my players command unintelligent beings to perform tasks that require some sort of comprehension to them.

So it mostly comes to the point of just how different are, "directly controls" and "mentally controls". As you cant see through the constructs eyes, or feel what it feels, directly controlling for fine movements might even be 'harder' than saying "press the third button on the right". In some ways I'd say that mentally controls is actually stronger, or at least the same.

 

[Alchemist]

So it mostly comes to the point of just how different are, "directly controls" and "mentally controls". As you cant see through the constructs eyes, or feel what it feels, directly controlling for fine movements might even be 'harder' than saying "press the third button on the right". In some ways I'd say that mentally controls is actually stronger, or at least the same.

I disagree, and I came up with a better example in the shower just now.


Let's say you have *complete* command over me, and you are a piano virtuoso. I, of course, am not. I have the agility for it, but not the training.

Now, *command* me to go over to that piano and play Dvorak's Piano Symphony #8, which you know well. *Command* me to play it at the proper tempo and with no more errors than you would introduce.

Okay. Now, you take *direct* command of my body, whinging me around like a puppet. I'm pretty sure you're going to play that piano piece much more adeptly that I ever would, no matter how much mental control you exert over me.

That, in a nutshell, is the difference I see in complete and direct command. Sure, you can tell me "press the 7th black key over quickly followed by the 28th white one" but that's just not going to cut it.

Edit: One does not need tactile and visual input from the contolled subject to still do a good job. Remote controlled cars can be adeptly piloted from the sidelines, why not a body?

 

[Scion]

All right then Now say you are the best guitar player ever and you command me to play the guitar, I dont even know how to hold it so i dont play it very well.

Now you direct me to do so, but since you cant feel what I feel, nor see what i see, and have to try and look at what my fingers do from 20 feet away it winds up sounding just as bad.

Either way you arent goint to be able to do much in a skilled fashion. If it is something like masonry it should be just as easy to direct as control, gross physical manipulation. But fine coordination would be all but impossible either way

With your example playing the piano requires fine control, feeling where the placement of your body is, feeling the keys, knowing where to press at the right time and exactly how far apart. If you are a foot taller than me then my hands are a different size, a different distance apart, and you wont be able to tell where either are without looking. Its not easy to subsitute 'seeing' for 'feeling' with that level of competance, and if you can then with mental commands you dont have to use words, you send them the impression of what they need to do. Instead of directly controlling their fingers you send them the impression of what the fingers must do and by how much. Nearly the same in most ways.