Eden Studios Adds Drive-Thru Window

[DaveMage]

As a whole, RPGnet (and to some extent, EN World) posters feel that by posting boycott statements or negative comments they can drastically affect a company's sales. But to be honest, nothing is further from the truth. Every member of EN World and RPGNet combined could choose to boycott a publisher and it might make a minor dent in sales at the very most and that's it.

Steve,

I agree this is certainly true for print products, but do you think the impact on the (solely) .pdf publisher, which may have lesser returns as it is, is as miniscule?

Thanks.

 

[Samothdm]

Steve,

I agree this is certainly true for print products, but do you think the impact on the (solely) .pdf publisher, which may have lesser returns as it is, is as miniscule?

Thanks.

Dave - I started a thread about this topic over in the General Forum here. It's not specifically related to PDFs versus print, but more just about whether or not the majority of people who purchase supplemental products are actively involved using message boards.

 

[thundershot]

I'm very curious as to how Monte's first new book is going to sell on DTRPG as compared to how the products at RPGNOW sold.

I know for a fact that I want his new planar book, but I'll gladly wait for the print edition (which I probably would have anyway). But the smaller books I'd be more likely to throw a few bucks down for a PDF, and now I won't.

Heck, sometimes I casually browse RPGNOW and find something that looks interesting. If it's a decent price, what's 5-8 bucks for a couple nights read. I'd spend that for a 2 hour movie without question (depending on the movie).

In any case, I'll continue to support RPGNOW even more than I did in the past, in hopes that my few dollars will help the site continue for years to come.


Thanks
Chris

 

[DaveMage]

I'm very curious as to how Monte's first new book is going to sell on DTRPG as compared to how the products at RPGNOW sold.

Yeah, that will be the bottom line, won't it?

I think Malhavoc is in a unique position in this controversy since they release their products as .pdfs first. Folks like Necromancer are just using this as an opportunity for those who can't find (or have access to) their print products (which I think could be a good thing under certain circumstances, although those circumstances don't apply to me ).

I'll say this - I've learned more about DRM in the last three days than I ever thought I would.

 

[Krieg]

George is blunt, calls it like he sees it and feels that his company doesn't "owe" gamers anything,

Perhaps it's time that companies began to realize that we don't "owe" them a damn thing either.

Don't blame the customer for choosing not to buy your product.

It's the sellers responsibility to make their product attractive to the consumer. It is NOT the consumer's responsibility to support companies that do not meet their needs or expectations.

George's children are not my responsibility.

I am not fond of DRM (for the same reasons as many others), I'm leery of what appears to be strongarm tactics on WW part, I find the ignorance on the part of the publishers regarding the issues appalling, the pricing is questionable and to top it off DTRPGs opening day woes were a nuisance.

That being said, I wasn't really upset or angry with any of the folks in question. They made a business decision. I don't agree with said decision & have chosen not to financially support it. Yet in the end all I hear is whining & excuses on the part of those involved.

I don't need to see their side of it. If they want MY money then it's time they start seeing things from my point of view if they want me as as a customer.

If they choose not to do so, that is absolutely fine by me. They won't get my business, and we can go saparate ways.

If they choose not to see the point of view enough customers, then they will go out of business, and that is fine as well, there are plenty of companies out there who are interested in providing a service that I and those like me want, and they will be more than happy to take out money.

Don't tell me that the RPG companies don't owe us anything and then whine about how we should be supporting their children!

PS-It's generally not a good idea to act like a jerk when you're in the service industry. Explain THAT to your kids.

 

[Ghostwind]

I agree this is certainly true for print products, but do you think the impact on the (solely) .pdf publisher, which may have lesser returns as it is, is as miniscule?

Yeah, I do. When you look at the larger picture of marketing for DTRPG in terms of who it reaches because of the marketing each individual company is doing, it reaches more people than just those who frequent the messageboards. Now add in the expanded product lines the participating companies are offering and it becomes more attractive to the casual gamer because he now has access to books that he usually would have to either wait a long time for it to appear on RPGNow or resort to the various "other" means of acquisitions. While it would be nice to think that online communities have great influence regarding the success or failure of online or even print products, I just haven't seen any evidence that shows they do.

However, as indicated in an earlier post, the first litmus test will be Malhavoc's next release. If the sales are extremely poor and Malhavoc goes back to RPGNow right away, I will be proven wrong on this matter.

 

[francisca]

As a whole, RPGnet (and to some extent, EN World) posters feel that by posting boycott statements or negative comments they can drastically affect a company's sales. But to be honest, nothing is further from the truth. Every member of EN World and RPGNet combined could choose to boycott a publisher and it might make a minor dent in sales at the very most and that's it.

No illusions of toppling empires here. As a matter of fact, I've predicted that the impact will be miniscule, and further, the folks like FFG and Necromancer will be the ones who gain the most.

But, you know, what are message boards for, if not to state your opinion.

 

[Grazzt]

Folks like Necromancer are just using this as an opportunity for those who can't find (or have access to) their print products (which I think could be a good thing under certain circumstances, although those circumstances don't apply to me ).

Correct. Clark (and probably Bill as well) have said that that is the goal: to get product to those who would normally be unable to get it (someone in another country, for example, where the cost of ordering a print version is way, way too expensive....heck, Bill even got an email from a guy in Saudi Arabia [I think] asking about how to acquire a copy of Rappan Athuk or Tomb of Abysthor or something.)

 

[Psion]

Correct. Clark (and probably Bill as well) have said that that is the goal: to get product to those who would normally be unable to get it (someone in another country, for example, where the cost of ordering a print version is way, way too expensive....heck, Bill even got an email from a guy in Saudi Arabia [I think] asking about how to acquire a copy of Rappan Athuk or Tomb of Abysthor or something.)

Someone living outside the US on RPGnet brought up a very good point regarding this:

PDFs are great for people in third world country with fewer print products. DSM is not, because there is a lot fewer connections at home, especially high speed connections. Some do their downloads at a cyber cafe and university and don't have the option of opening it at home.

See:

Originally posted by Nisarg on RPGnet
If by "benefits the international folks" you mean south america, you're quite wrong. Or any 3rd world country for that matter.

PDFs are a HUGE benefit, DRM is useless.

Since the average person in these countries doesn't own their own computers, and many of those who do don't have high-speed internet connections on their home computers, its usually the case that a PDF would be bought at and downloaded at a workplace or cybercafe, put onto a disk and brought over to the home computer and/or printed.
If you can't download a file in one computer and then go use it in another, that file is useless in any country where the presumption is not that everyone has a magnificent home computer with high-speed ADSL AND a printer.

In my case, I do happen to be one of the very tiny minority that have High-speed ADSL and a pretty magnificent computer, but I have no printer. So while i will buy PDFs (gotten a couple from rpgnow so far), and download them at home, I take them to the local cybercafe to print.
I can't do that with DRM. Therefore I will never shop at DTRPG.

Nisarg

 

[Funksaw]

I'm afraid that they'll take the wrong message from this. Instead of thinking, "Darn, I bet more people would have purchased our PDFs if we didn't have this overly restrictive DRM thing attached to them", I think they'll come to the conclusion that, "Huh. What's the big deal with these PDFs? Nobody's buying them, so it's not even worth our time to make them."

Not buying the PDfs is, I think, a start. But, I think letting the companies know *why* you're not buying them (very politely) is key.

Something along the lines of:

"Dear [name of Game Designer or Company Owner],

I wanted you to know that as a frequent purchaser of RPG PDFs, I was intrigued when I saw that you were offering [insert product name here] on DriveThruRPG. I have been wanting to purchase this product ever since I heard about it [or ever since it went out of print or becuase I want to have an electronic and a print copy, etc.].

Unfortunately, I will not buy e-books with DRM. Therefore, I can not purchase your product.

I will be visiting your website frequently to see if you reverse your decision to sell your electronic products exclusively through DriveThruRPG. Until you sell your electronic products elsewhere, without DRM restrictions, I will be spending my money elsewhere.

Sincerely,
[name]"

Several hundreds of e-mails going to the company owners and marketing personnel of each company that you are not buying from would probably mean more than a bunch of posts that are, fairly or unfairly, seen as inflammatory by the people who work at these companies.

Which is why the other half of the "boycott" is they "buycott" of RPGnow and other PDF sellers. One of the reasons that people are so vocal about telling Eden and GOO and WW and Malhavoc and Firey Dragon and Fantasy Whatever games is that a failed dollar vote only tells you that your products aren't selling - customer feedback is telling you *why* they're not selling.

WW got into the internet roleplaying sales business to begin with because RPGnow obviously WAS profitable and a good business decision.