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EDIT - Looking for a few suggestions on a HOLY Warrior Build

MorganKiller

First Post
Mmmm... ok for the fighter build... but if you don't plan to play a paladin later on switch your Cha and Wis scores to gain some decent Will save.

Anyway IMO with such good rolls if you don't play a Paladin you commit a crime... :D

Last, I would discard the cleric... you must be the tank, stop thinking about spells and let someone else cast! :) You should focus on your skill to swing that big bad sword, ok? Take a look at defenders of the faith, it has some nice prestige class...
 

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Darklone

Registered User
I'd keep the high charisma. If you're aiming for sunblades later, get dex high enough for TWF. Cleric: Wouldn't do it, you need BAB. :D
 


Epametheus

First Post
jarlaxlecq said:
hmm the only negative thing i can think of with the original Paladin build was lack of Feats, what should be my priority with feats?

Divine Might, Divine Might, Divine Might. It's a mandatory feat for melee paladins.

You'll need Power Attack to get it, and you should take Cleave while you're at it.

After that, just do whatever. Go for mounted combat if you really like the mount.

With a base Charisma of 19, you should do very well for yourself. Go for Divine Might ASAP (you need Turn Undead, so you'll have to stick with Pally for a bit), and then multi-class however you want once you've got it. The Holy Sword spell was the single best reason to be a straight Paladin in 3E, but it got seriously nerfed in 3.5.

The new version of it isn't bad per se, but by the time you're high enough level to cast it, it won't be noticably better than what you're already wielding.
 

jarlaxlecq

First Post
Epametheus said:
Divine Might, Divine Might, Divine Might. It's a mandatory feat for melee paladins.......
The Holy Sword spell was the single best reason to be a straight Paladin in 3E, but it got seriously nerfed in 3.5.

The new version of it isn't bad per se, but by the time you're high enough level to cast it, it won't be noticably better than what you're already wielding.

Speaking of Nerfed isn't that what they did to Divine Might? i mean if the Chr Bonus to damage only lasts one round then i'll burn through my turn undead attempts pretty quickly.
 

shilsen

Adventurer
jarlaxlecq said:
Speaking of Nerfed isn't that what they did to Divine Might? i mean if the Chr Bonus to damage only lasts one round then i'll burn through my turn undead attempts pretty quickly.

Makes sense. Compare with the standard "bonus to damage" feat - Weapon Specialization. Gives a +2 bonus which you can use all day, but it's just with the one weapon type. And it will never improve. Divine Might gives a damage bonus which will usually be higher than +2, much higher in many cases. And it works with any weapon. But it's available only a limited number of times a day. Seems balanced to me. YMMV.
 

jarlaxlecq

First Post
shilsen said:
Makes sense. Compare with the standard "bonus to damage" feat - Weapon Specialization. Gives a +2 bonus which you can use all day, but it's just with the one weapon type. And it will never improve. Divine Might gives a damage bonus which will usually be higher than +2, much higher in many cases. And it works with any weapon. But it's available only a limited number of times a day. Seems balanced to me. YMMV.

point taken, ok so i have

1) Power Attack
2) Cleave
3) Divine Might
4) Celestial BloodLine
5) Outsider Wings

so lets see

Lvl 1 Paladin1 - Power Attack
Lvl 2 Paladin2
Lvl 3 Paladin3 - Celestial Bloodline
Lvl 4 Paladin3/Fighter1 - Cleave
Lvl 5 Paladin4/Fighter1
Lvl 6 Paladin4/Fighter2 - Outsider Wings, Divine Might
Lvl 7 Paladin5/Fighter2
Lvl 8 Paladin5/Fighter3
Lvl 9 Paladin5/Fighter4 - Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
Lvl 10 Paladin6/Fighter4

How this sound?
 
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Darklone

Registered User
Bad :D

I would try to get Divine Might at level 5 with Pal4/Ftr1. :D

If your DM let's you choose it as fighter bonus feat. If not: Level 6.
 

Korak

First Post
What level are you starting at? A lot of the discussion in this thread has revolved around the possible roles of a tank. Many, including myself, are proponents of the tank as damage shield/sponge. However, this is only really valuable if there are other party members that can lay out the damage. If you are starting at 5th level and your casters can drop fireballs, then you can start as the high ac, low damage, I'm just keeping you busy while you're nuked down kind of fighter/paladin. However, if you are starting at level one as the only melee character, know that the rest of the party is going to have a hard time putting down the enemies. They will have very limited spell slots for attack/healing magic, and negligible melee. Melees generally carry the casters to 5th level and then the roles reverse and the melees support the casters.

If you really want to play a paladin over a fighter, then weapon focus is almost required at first level. Without the high strength, your hit mod will suck. For instance, your 15str Aasimar will have a hit mod of +3 (+2 to damage/+3 with two hands), compared to a level 2 fighter with 18 str at level 2 with power attack, cleave, and weapon focus and a +7 to hit (and +4 to damage/+6 with two hands). One of the biggest strengths of the 16 or 18str level one fighter is power attack/cleave. When you can start with a +4 or +5 hit mod and lay out the monsters you fight, usually in one hit, and generate extra attacks, you can save your party a lot of damage. You can still do this with a reasonable AC, and you can still switch to a higher AC, lower damage style later in your career.

Also, in a feat poor Paladin build, leave the bastard sword alone. You can get all the same benefits from a long sword save the d10 vs the d8. The feat is not worth the single point of average damage unless you just have a high character concept/roleplay desire to wield a bastard sword.

It sounds like you have a strong roleplaying preference for the holy warrior type. The aasimar are a great rp hook, and the paladin is not a bad class by any stretch, but as the party's tank, I'd think twice about the ECL race. You'll need all the hp you can get. I don't have any books in front of me, but what are Torm's domains? I encourage you to have a look at the human Clr1/FtrX build. If you worship Kord, the strength and luck domains are a great bargain. When you've accumulated the feats you want/need, you can always dip back into cleric for a bit more casting utility with no multiclass penalty, or stick with fighter levels to be less buff reliant. Alternatively, you can simply switch the build and be Ftr1/ClrX and still be a great "holy warrior" if a bit more dependent on buffs, although, you'll also have a great deal of self healing and utility spells.

Ok, this is getting long. The last thing I want to do is to give a paladin alternative.

Human Pal6 Ftr4

Stats (using what you rolled)
Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 13
Cha: 15

Progression:
Ftr 1: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Ftr 1/Pal 1:
Ftr 1/Pal 2: Improved Buckler Defense
Ftr 2/Pal 2: Dodge (put stat up into charisma)
Ftr 2/Pal 3:
Ftr 2/Pal 4: Divine Might
Ftr 3/Pal 4:
Ftr 4/Pal 4: Mobility (put stat up into strength)
Ftr 5/Pal 4: Spring Attack
Ftr 6/Pal 4: Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)

Alternatively,

Swap Dex and Cha

Progression:
Ftr 1: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Ftr 1/Pal 1:
Ftr 1/Pal 2: Two Weapon Fighting
Ftr 2/Pal 2: Improved Shield Bash (put stat up into strength)
Ftr 2/Pal 3:
Ftr 2/Pal 4: Divine Might
Ftr 3/Pal 4:
Ftr 4/Pal 4: Dodge (put stat up into strength)
Ftr 5/Pal 4: Mobility
Ftr 6/Pal 4: Spring Attack

Get a spiked light shield, with the defending property on the shield spikes. You can make a single attack with it without losing the AC bonus and you can allocate the spikes enhancement bonus to your AC.

I prefer the first build, since it uses your diety's favored weapon, but the second will give you a higher AC at the cost of a bit of damage, and 1 to all your saves.

Good luck in your campaign.
 
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jarlaxlecq

First Post
You make a very convincing argument, I guess its back to the whole Paladin vs. Fighter arguments. Hmm Maybe a Human Fighter/Barbarian would be best in this case. i;ll have to think about it and fine out if the other players have decieded on what they want yet. If i know what they are going to be it might make it easier for me to choose. Thanks again
 

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