Educated guess on Multi-Classing

[Anthtriel]

There's a wide spectrum between "hardcore simulation", where you make a character train for weeks and months, then have them roll a check to see if they succeed or fail in their training, and deduct a heap of GP from their bag of gold on top of it, and something approaching a videogame, where levels pop up over your head in golden numbers when you reach them, and where you can mix and match without any big problems. I don't mind ease of play and character fulfillment...same way, I don't mind a bit of realism where a class is more than just a bundle of points and abilities to be chosen at a whim. That's why I said, the line for suspense of disbelief is different for everybody playing the game.

I don't like (or allow, for that matter), characters taking up a new class without a good explanation either, but I don't believe in discouraging choices by making characters sucky if they take them.

"Freedom to suck is no freedom at all" - said by someone whose name I have forgotten.

 

[BASHMAN]

this does sound like a preety good idea

although will the math get funny....so Fighter4/Wizard4 c.f to a Fighter7/Wizard1?

A fighter 4/Wizard 4 would have the abilities of a Fighter 6 and of a Wizard 6

 

[BASHMAN]

The problem with the flat 50% rate is that it works okay for a multiclass character who keeps both class levels close to each other, but looks very wonky on somebody who has greatly different class levels in his classes. A fighter 8/wizard 8 who fights respectively casts as a 12th level character can be explained story-wise...but a fighter 8 who picks up his first wizard level and suddenly casts like a 5th level wizard? Not really.

Ah, but he is still limited to the # of spells /day/encounter as a 1st level wizard. There are likely prerequisites for higher level spells, etc.

For instance, with Bo9S, I had a 15th level monk. I then took a level in sword sage. This gave me the Initiator level of a Swordsage 8, however, with the ability prerequisites, I had access to one 4th level maneuver, and most of the rest were level 1.

A real Sword Sage 8 would have access to a lot more maneuvers, many of them higher in level.

Now something that was wonky with Bo9S multiclassing was that you were always better off taking levels in somethign else first THEN multiclassing into a Martial Adept class. In fact, sometimes it was impossible for your class to gain access to certain stances without it (crusader for instance gained its last stance known before it had access to its highest level stances, and stances known could never be changed-- therefor the only way to gain access to the best stances was to take 2 levels in something else first).

 

[Quartz]

For spellcasters, you could do this in 3E with feats: just create a new feat

Improved Practiced Spellcaster

Prerequisite: Practiced Spellcaster for one of the base classes.
Benefit: You can memorise spells in the base class for which you took Practiced Spellcaster as if you were a spellcaster 2 levels higher. You may not raise your spellcasting level beyond your character level. This feat does not apply to spell progressions peculiar to Prestige Classes (e.g. Assassin, Apostle of Peace, Blighter, Ur-Priest etc).

Special: this feat may be taken multiple times and stacks.

Example: Marvin the Multifacetted is a Wiz 3 / Dr 5 / Mystic Theurge 10 with Practiced Spellcaster on the Wizard side. He memorises spells as a Wiz 13 / Dr 15 and casts as Wiz 17 / Dr 15. Now he takes IPC and memorises spells as a Wiz 15 / Dr 15 and casts as Wiz 17 / Dr 15.

If you are more generous with feats than standard, you may wish to add prerequisites.

 

[Zaruthustran]

What about a simpler system? Character level provides the fuel for your powers (*all* your powers), but your choice of powers is determined by class level.

So a fighter 4 / wizard 1 has a "caster level" of 5. Why? He's a caster (he has a level in a spellcasting class), and his character level is 5. However, he only has access to those powers available to a 1st level wizard.

In 3e terms, he'd have a single 1st level spell (plus bonus spells from stats). If he choose Magic Missile, he'd get a total of three missiles.

Seems pretty easy to me for all class powers to be fueled by total character level, as opposed to "caster level" or "fighter level".

What I *don't* think will happen is that he gets all the spells and abilities of a 3rd level wizard. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Aage]

What about a simpler system? Character level provides the fuel for your powers (*all* your powers), but your choice of powers is determined by class level.

So a fighter 4 / wizard 1 has a "caster level" of 5. Why? He's a caster (he has a level in a spellcasting class), and his character level is 5. However, he only has access to those powers available to a 1st level wizard.

In 3e terms, he'd have a single 1st level spell (plus bonus spells from stats). If he choose Magic Missile, he'd get a total of three missiles.

Seems pretty easy to me for all class powers to be fueled by total character level, as opposed to "caster level" or "fighter level".

What I *don't* think will happen is that he gets all the spells and abilities of a 3rd level wizard. That doesn't make sense to me.

Seconded

 

[Wycen]

I wonder if gestalt rules might somehow play a part.

 

[Oligopsony]

I guess everybody has a different line where his suspension of disbelief stops, Henry. Depending on the setup, I can take somebody pick up first level in a class that was supposed to be years of training, apprenticeship and study, and do so on the fly. But accepting that, because he's spent the last 8 levels training his fighting prowess by combating monsters and villains, and incidentally being exposed to magical stuff around him, he's suddenly an expert caster just because he picked up "Magic for Dummies"...that's where it stops for me. Personally, I've always been a fan of dedicated classes for mixed competences...probably because I started with Basic D&D, where you simply played an elf if you wanted a fighter who can cast spells as well.

I feel like you may have overly developed intuitions about how magic operates.

Can a great warrior who picks up some elementary instruction plausibly progress faster than a novice who picks up the same? Sure. Maybe the warrior is greater-souled; perhaps the fires he's been through have been mystic initiations, though he knows it not. Maybe magic is intimidated by his prowess.

Of course, a gamist critique of "all classes give +50% progression to all other classes" is still perfectly valid. "Lower of half of all other classes and half of this class" and "inidividual classes and total class progression do different things" are both good solutions, I guess.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

I feel like you may have overly developed intuitions about how magic operates.

That's probably because I've had 20 years of time and opportunity to form those opinions about magic and its users in the context of D&D. And since I'm quite okay with them, I'm not that easy to move away from them either as long as it's about D&D. As for anything else, I'm actually quite flexible. But that's neither here nor there.

I actually like that suggestion about character level being the "power battery" for all the character's powers. It resounds well with characters being very heroic persons from the start, instead of being "normal" persons who train in a certain occupation.
As long as they don't have to start their day with "In brightest day, in blackest night..."

 

[Irda Ranger]

What about a simpler system? Character level provides the fuel for your powers (*all* your powers), but your choice of powers is determined by class level.

So a fighter 4 / wizard 1 has a "caster level" of 5. Why? He's a caster (he has a level in a spellcasting class), and his character level is 5. However, he only has access to those powers available to a 1st level wizard.

In 3e terms, he'd have a single 1st level spell (plus bonus spells from stats). If he choose Magic Missile, he'd get a total of three missiles.

I like this guess. I've thought of a few alternatives, but this is surely the simplest, and simple counts for a lot with the 4E designers.