Effects lasting until the end of the encounter, w00t!

[jasin]

Yeah, that was a problem with SAGA Edition. I was a jedi, and to recover your abilities you had to be out of combat for a minute resting. I was constantly asking, "Has it been a minute yet? Do I get my stuff back yet?" but other than that the system was so great, because you never had to skimp because you were saving your abilities for a bigger guy just to learn you were fighting the big guy.

This isn't actually an artifact of a per encounter model, because Force powers aren't actually per encounter but per minute. Tracking minutes to see whether you got Force powers back isn't different from tracking minutes to see if divine favour ran out, which was done before people started thinking about per encounter abilities.

The weird thing is abilities like Force point recovery: you get back a Force point which you spent in the encounter. So what happens when you clear out a room of stormtroopers, and another one immediately bursts in through the door? Is this a second encounter, or a second wave of the same one? Did you get back your Force point in the mean time? What if there's a round of calm before the reinforcements arrive? What if there's a minute? What if there's ten minutes, but they aren't calm, but with the PCs trying to bolt down the door in a hurry so that the reinforcements are locked out?

That's the kind of thing people worry about.

IME, the simplest solution would be to tie the "per encounter" powers to explicit timeframes which produce the same result as true meta-game per encounter timing for the obvious cases, and provide an answer for the ambiguous ones.

Like the Force powers, which refresh after 1 minute of rest: you ain't getting them back in the middle of combat, and once combat ends, it's almost trivial to get them back for the next fight, so most of the time, you don't have to actually track time. But if the lines between encounters get blurred for whatever reason, there's also an explicit in-game timeframe you can reference.

 

[Simplicity]

So, I guess we won't see PC fall to their death because of an ending "fly" spell or this kind of things.

That'd actually be pretty funny.

Player 1: "No!!!! Don't kill the bulette yet! My fly spell only lasts the encounter!"

Player 2: "Whoops. I hit."

DM: "End of encounter."

Player 1: "Aaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Quick someone backstab us!"

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I like the per-encounter abilities, and the fact that buff spells last the encounter...

But,

Am I the only one worried that the game will end up feeling a lot like (need to be careful here because I know where this can go) playing my world of warcraft character.

Now before we all go off the deep end, let me explain...

When I play my character I have a set strategy, I always cast the same spells, in the same order…

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

I think in one of the blog posts or design columns, they talked about this. They indeed encountered that problem in early (internal) playtest, but they seemed to have found ways to counter it. But we don't know yet what that would be.
A guess:
Several abilities seem to be tied to conditions - immediate counter-attacks, gaining combat advantage for sneak attacks, new options against "bloodied" foes. Before you can use your "standard power", you have to find a way to use it, "activating" the right condition for it. If the enemies are diverse enough ("Hmm, I guess tripping is out for the 16-legged spider? Need to find another way to get a combat advantage"), this might mean you will have to rely on different abilities depending on each encounter.
(Or they were just lying and will try to come up with a fix in the PHB 2 )

From a playtest report in the past, it still seems though that there are some "standard" tactics that are usually viable - like opening up an encounter with your "per encounter" powers. This would be a problem if you're using the same power all the time (or always the latest you got due to character advancement), but we don't know yet whether this is true.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Player: I cast bull's strength and kick down the door.

DM: Ok, your encounter with the door is over, your bull's strength spell ends.

 

[drothgery]

So, I guess we won't see PC fall to their death because of an ending "fly" spell or this kind of things.

Of course, it's kind of difficult for this to happen with 3.x Fly (not impossible, but difficult).

 

[LostSoul]

IME, the simplest solution would be to tie the "per encounter" powers to explicit timeframes which produce the same result as true meta-game per encounter timing for the obvious cases, and provide an answer for the ambiguous ones.

IME, the simplest solution would be to let the DM decide.

I doubt 4e will have scene framing mechanics specifically outlined, but I'm sure there will be advice.

 

[blargney the second]

You know when the encounter ends. It's really that simple.

This is great news. I hate figuring out how much time has elapsed to see if buffs are still going.
-blarg

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Am I the only one worried that the game will end up feeling a lot like (need to be careful here because I know where this can go) playing my world of warcraft character.
...
When I play my character I have a set strategy, I always cast the same spells, in the same order…

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

Well, they're getting rid of Christmas-tree buffs, and they're relegating at least some other buffs to immediate actions (there was a warlord battleshout-type ability like this mentioned in a playtest). So your priest won't spend a turn casting Blessing at the beginning of every combat; either the spell will be gone altogether, or it'll be reduced to an immediate action so you can cast it AND do something interesting, or it'll be buffed into a per-day ability so you'll only be pulling it out for the really big challenges.

 

[Pinotage]

You know when the encounter ends. It's really that simple.

This is great news. I hate figuring out how much time has elapsed to see if buffs are still going.
-blarg

Right about when the barbarian's rage runs out and he dies! Or that bear's endurance spell that's keeping the fighter alive.

It's a good idea, though. I just hope they tie it down nicely so that these kinds of loose ends aren't around, and the time-limit thing is addressed (different lengths of encounters).

Pinotage

 

[Gumby]

I like the per-encounter abilities, and the fact that buff spells last the encounter...

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

Not too worried here - players will always have a somewhat arbitrary sequence that they cast their buffs in, no matter what the edition (or even game system). The sequence itself may change for 4E, but the arbitrariness was always there.