EL of this encounter -- my Players stay out

[Quasqueton]

A barred wall with a barred door in the center (think "prison bars"). The adventurers can pick the door lock or think of some other way to get on the other side. Whenever someone touches the wall/door, an efreet is summoned into the room (on the other side of the barred wall). The efreet will try to prevent the adventurers from coming through and getting past him.

Now, for one thing, the efreet is Medium size (with all the stat effects a size reduction entails, basically reversing a Medium-to-Large conversion [no HD change]). I figure this reduces his CR by 1, making him CR 7. This is correct, yes?

When summoned, the efreet will first ask (in Infernal) by whose order the adventurers want passage. Of course the adventurers have no clue as to the answer, if they even understand the question.

Since the efreet wants to prevent the invaders from coming in, his first action (after the adventurers fail to give the “passname”) will probably be to throw up a wall of fire along the barred wall. So, the adventurers must get passed the fiery barred wall/door to even get to the monster in this room.

What is the Encounter Level?

Notes I have contemplated:

* It is possible that the adventurers could get passed the barred wall without actually touching it and summoning the efreet.

* The adventurers can possibly get the efreet to give them the “passname” – not really by tricking the efreet, but maybe by paying him off. He doesn’t care, is annoyed at having been summoned for the first time in a very long time, isn’t particularly spoiling for a fight (though isn’t afraid of one), and is supposed to allow passed anyone who gives him the passname – he hasn’t been told to not give hints or clues.

* Once the wall of fire is up, the adventurers have the freedom and ability to simply pull back out of its heat range (out of the whole encounter area, actually). They can can pull out, prepare fire resistance, and go back in.

Quasqueton

 

[Infiniti2000]

It seems to be simply EL 7 (I agree with the CR reduction). The location does not significantly benefit the efreet and there are multiple, easy, ways to handle it. Is the magic that summons the efreet noticeable on the bars/door?

A simple knock spell will Net the PC's CR7 XP, right?

I disagree that the efreet will purposefully cheat the contract. Efreeti are lawful, not chaotic. I'd think anyone strong enough to set up this trap would be smart enough not to leave such an obvious loophole in the contract. So, I wouldn't buy that logic and quite frankly wouldn't think of it as a PC.

 

[Quasqueton]

Is the magic that summons the efreet noticeable on the bars/door?

I would say an abjuration aura could be found on the bars with detect magic. A conjuration aura could be seen in the area beyond the bars.

A simple knock spell will Net the PC's CR7 XP, right?

Of course not.

I disagree that the efreet will purposefully cheat the contract. Efreeti are lawful, not chaotic. I'd think anyone strong enough to set up this trap would be smart enough not to leave such an obvious loophole in the contract. So, I wouldn't buy that logic and quite frankly wouldn't think of it as a PC.

Noted. But aren’t efreets known for twisting and cheating the spirit of contracts (and wishes) as much as they can while staying within the bounds of the letter of the contract? But this encounter doesn’t hinge on the efreet cheating the contract, I just recognize the possibility of the adventurers attempting a non-direct-violence route.

Of course, though, any possibility that I consider ahead of time will not come up in an actual game session.

Quasqueton

 

[Infiniti2000]

Of course not.

Well, any method used to defeat the challenge should net full XP, right? Wouldn't a successful dispel magic on either effect obtain full XP? So should a knock spell. Anyway, I didn't mention it to give you heartache about how to award XP, but to point out what I think would be a very obvious answer. My players would definitely use detect magic followed by dispels. When/if the dispel(s) fail, they would stand back and use knock. Unless I accounted for that, I'd have to give them full XP. So, my advice is that you should at least consider it an option and be forewarned on how to handle it.

The easy answer, of course, is to change the "door" to be a portcullis.

*taps finger on table*

Problem solved from your end.

 

[Quasqueton]

Well, any method used to defeat the challenge should net full XP, right? Wouldn't a successful dispel magic on either effect obtain full XP? So should a knock spell. Anyway, I didn't mention it to give you heartache about how to award XP, but to point out what I think would be a very obvious answer. My players would definitely use detect magic followed by dispels. When/if the dispel(s) fail, they would stand back and use knock. Unless I accounted for that, I'd have to give them full XP. So, my advice is that you should at least consider it an option and be forewarned on how to handle it.

What heartache? It just seems you are trying to make something terribly complicated that really should be left to a DM’s judgment based on actual game play. I didn’t say I wouldn’t award xp, just that I wouldn’t award CR7 xp if the PCs don’t actually encounter and overcome a CR7 obstacle. Just opening a lock and walking through a door is not a CR7 challenge.

The easy answer, of course, is to change the "door" to be a portcullis.

Advice noted. (And will probably be implemented.)

Quasqueton

 

[Infiniti2000]

Just opening a lock and walking through a door is not a CR7 challenge.

I agree, but the DMG suggests differently. A challenge overcome is a challenge overcome. If you put the efreet-trap-thingy there and the PC gets by without directly fighting the efreet, then they get full XP as per the DMG guidelines. But, as DM you can use those guidelines or not as you see fit. That's what I mean about not giving you heartache about it. Note that I agree with you, but others will not.

 

[Quasqueton]

A challenge overcome is a challenge overcome.

Yes. But a potential challenge never faced is not a challenge overcome.

The difference between a challenge overcome, a challenge ignored, and a challenge avoided is not well defined (and probably can’t be well defined).

Now, I know how discussions in this Rules forum always get bogged down into the minutia of rules text. But I’m not going to get dragged down into that kind of aggravating argument. My question here has nothing to do with how to award xp for this encounter. I was just asking what the encounter level would be – note that xp is not awarded based on EL, so getting sidetracked into a debate on xp awards is tangential (at best) to my question.

Although I do appreciate the advice for the portcullis.

Quasqueton

 

[Bad Paper]

If it is a summoning effect that brings the mini-efreeti, then I would call this an EL 7.

If it is a calling effect, then it is an EL 8. A called efreeti will drain more resources than a summoned one.

 

[Quasqueton]

A called efreeti will drain more resources than a summoned one.

How so?

Quasqueton

 

[Infiniti2000]

How so?

Quasqueton

A summoned efreet cannot physically attack someone who has protection from ___ going, or even approach a magic circle. A summoned efreet could simply be dispelled (via dispel magic, both could be sent back with dispel evil). The summoned efreet also will not grant any wishes, as if you had planned that to happen anyway.

In short, summoned creatures are generally much more restricted than called creatures, because they don't stand to lose as much. I'd guess you intend the efreet to be called.

That said, I don't agree with Bad Paper that the EL changes. The CR 8 (modified down to 7) is based on a fully-functional creature.