My players ran into a bad-guy last night that wasn't nearly as tough as planned. What happened? Incredibly
bad tactics by the DM (me)? Or does the CR system in the DMG not correctly apply to split classes / and when
you modify a monster?
I'm hoping for a recommendation on the EL, and justification (i.e. +1 because of this, or -1 because of
that).
---
The main bad guy was a wraith with levels 6/5 (fighter/Monte Cook sorceror). It's not a typical wraith (which is completely incorporeal and has a touch attack only); it was an undead creature that was bound to certain equipment -- so while it remains incorporeal, because it's bound to solid eq (breastplate, mace), it could no longer pass through walls. For several reasons, I wanted to roll this up as a "modified wraith", rather than use a different creature (such as death knight, skeletal warrior, vampire, etc.). I did include the other wraith abilities (most notably, 50% chance that any physical attack misses. All attacks require +1 magical weapon or no damage, etc.)
Wraith was created with PC Gen, and had high stats. (Though 0 str and 0 con due to wraith base monster.)
There were 6 other wights supporting this main bad guy.
The good guys consisted of:
lvl 7 rogue
lvl 6 priest
lvl 6 fighter
lvl 6 sorcerer (Monte Cook's)
lvl 5 monk
lvl 3/2 fighter/rogue
4 x lvl 2 warriors (NPCs)
And the PCs were fresh from a fight with these wights and had some vs. undead equipment (sword x2 vs. undead, ring of negative energy protection 3x/day).
Despite being woken in the middle of the night, all spellcasters had their full contingent of spells (didn't cast any the day before).
The battle:
- Disturbed in the middle of the night, the PC's are alerted to the presence of the undead. They have time to prepare for something -- so they're on guard and create some watch fires for light.
- They didn't know what's coming or when it's coming, so no short-term spells (shield, protection spells) had been cast.
- The wraith's familar (undead raven) lands on the barn, drawing their attention.
- From the shadows of the barn, the undead detact themselves from the shadows and leap (wights) or drift
forward (wraith) to the attack.
Pre-combat:
- Wraith cast shield on self, increasing AC from 25 (base + magical shield and breastplate) to 33.
- Wights appear and move to engage the nearest PCs. Luckily -- this puts most of the party fighters (and
monk, cleric) at the forefront of the attack, and our party's sorceror at the back.
- Wraith begins to glide toward the PCs; appears at the edge of visibility.
Round 1:
- Wights make some unlucky combat rolls, missing (even vs. the level 2 warriors).
- PCs make some average combat rolls, magic missle spell, and a turn attempt, causing some minor damage to
the undead.
- Sorceror shouts warning about the wraith's shield spell.
- Wraith moves to fighter and takes 1 attack with mace (misses).
Round 2:
- PCs do additional damage, outnumbering the foes they're able to surround in some cases, getting several attacks of opportunity when 3 wights flee due to the round 1 turn.
- Sorceror hits wraith with 3 magic missles.
- Combat + the AOO results in 2 dead wights, and 1 that successfully flees.
- The wraith attacks (two attacks; +13/+8) the fighter in combat with mace, causing nominal damage.
- Cleric casts shield of faith spell.
Round 3:
- Both PCs and undead hold their own.
- Sorceror begins Summon Monster II.
- Cleric casts prayer spell.
Round 4:
- Sorceror completes summoning Celestial Eagle appears.
- Eagle slams into the raven (wraith's familar), resulting in a dead raven and a pissed off wraith. [Wraith loses "XP" with the death of the familar ... no effect.]
- Sorceror casts dispel magic (wraith's shield spell) -- fails.
- Wraith -- instead of attacking, casts magic missle and blows away the celestial eagle. The AOO misses.
- Cleric tries to dispel wraith's shield spell -- fails.
Round 5:
- Wraith is becoming surrounded as 2 of the lower levels join combat. Attacks are still missing him, though.
- Wraith steps back out of combat (5') and casts darkness. (He has blind fighting and there are several PCs
in the immediate vicinity, so the confusion itself would be worth while.)
- Cleric is outside of the globe of darkness, sees it for what it is, and orders all PCs to step back. Tries
to turn the remaining wraith and 3 wights.
Round 6:
- Some PCs step back.
- Sorceror finally gets some good dispel rolls! Dispels both the darkness and the shield.
- 2 wights try to flee (reacting to the turn); 1 is killed with AOOs. Another escapes.
Round 7:
- Wraith disarms fighter, and with his second attack hits him with an touch attack (attempts to drain con). Fighter makes a fort save and therefore only takes nominal damage.
- Other party members still trying to hit, largely missing, Sorceror continuing with magic missle spells.
Round 8:
- Unarmed fighter tries to grapple the wraith and pin it to the ground. Note: Can't grapple incorporeal creatures but since this one is magically bound to the equipment, the grapple check succeeds against the equipment, forcing the wraith to the ground.
- Wraith raises his Mace and activates the Terror special. 3 nearby PCs (including the fighter) are held (hold person). [Wraith loses 1 cha point ... no effect though, he wasn't into dating and cha is still very high for sorc spells.]
- As his move-equivalent action; wraith recognises that with 27 hp left of 73 original, it's time to flee.
Flies up 40' into the air; draws only 1 AOO others are held), which misses.
Round 9:
- Monk scales nearby building to get on the roof and continue attack.
- Others begin missle (crossbow, shortbow) attacks from ground.
- Almost everything misses or does virtually no damage.
- Sorceror's magic missle nails it.
- Wraith flees.
- Cleric shouts to "get it!" (otherwise I suspect they would not have pursued.)
Rounds 10+
- Wraith blasts the monk with 3 magic missle and does normal move (flys 40'
horizontally), fleeing.
- Sorceror casts expeditious retreat on self, and moves 60' that round to follow.
- Cleric finishes summoning a dire bat which attacks (misses) the wraith.
- The wraith flees at full speed (40' x 4), the bat continues to follow but only
just stays with it; i.e. AOO only.
(a few rounds pass until the sorceror can run within range)
- The sorceror blasts it with 1 more magic missle spell as he's moving, upon which the wraith changes direction to fly at a 45 degree angle to put the maximum distance between him and the sorceror (Assumed 45
degree angle, means that a 160' move on the diagonal gives 113' of horizontal distance and 113' of vertical distance.)
i.e. the bottom line is that the wraith is now at a height of 153' above ground. By sheer fluke, the range of the Sorceror's magic missle is 160', though on second analysis, he could have used metamagic (enlarge) to hit a farther target.
- Bat gets in a lucky AOO just before the spell expires.
- Sorceror runs (expeditious retreat) at 240', and therefore positions himself so that he'll be directly underneath as the wraith passes overhead (and the sorceror doesn't have to do a run, so will have time in a round to cast a small).
- Wraith barely takes enough damage to drop it (-2 hp), with the Sorceror's last magic missle.
---
Summary:
What I'm getting at is two things:
1. The party was lucky to kill the wraith; it was very close to escaping.
2. There may have been some "tactical errors" (e.g. could have launched magic missles before battle, or
focused on the sorceror, or when deciding to flee, just flee as fast as possible, never stop to take a last
pot shot at a climbing monk, decide to drain the fighter's CON while on the ground, etc.), but what the wraith did was reasonable.
HOWEVER, not withstanding these two points, the party was *never in any real danger*, dispite the fact that
the calculated EL for this was have been many levels higher than the party level.
---
So, what's the EL?
- Wraith (6/5 fighter/sorceror) = CR 5 + 5 + 6 = CR 16
- 6 wights each CR 3 = CR 8
Therefore, DMG would put the EL around 17 (p101), and the exp table on p166 would mark encounter as this as
** = "Not a regular encounter, something strange is going on.". Extrapolating from the footnote (xp is double the amount 2 levels below), would make this:
(Note, "average party levels" is technically a LOW OF 4, because of the NPCs. Which means that adding low
levels NPCs to your party gives you more total exp, though after you divide by the # of party members, it bring the number back down again.)
So if average party level is 4; XP is XP at CR 11 x 2^3 = 12,800 x 8 = 102,400.
/ 10 members = 10,240 per PC.
Or let's be reasonable and use an average party level of 6. XP is 21,600 x 2^2 = 86,400
/ 10 = 8,640 per PC.
Still WAY too high for the encounter considering that the PCs weren't really in any danger.
Other things to think about:
- Should the CR of a mixed class creature not just include its levels? Should instead it be something like:
5 (wraith) + 6 (all levels in largest class) + 1/2 of all subsequent levels?
- Or should it no longer be a base 5 from the wraith, since this particular one isn't ful
bad tactics by the DM (me)? Or does the CR system in the DMG not correctly apply to split classes / and when
you modify a monster?
I'm hoping for a recommendation on the EL, and justification (i.e. +1 because of this, or -1 because of
that).
---
The main bad guy was a wraith with levels 6/5 (fighter/Monte Cook sorceror). It's not a typical wraith (which is completely incorporeal and has a touch attack only); it was an undead creature that was bound to certain equipment -- so while it remains incorporeal, because it's bound to solid eq (breastplate, mace), it could no longer pass through walls. For several reasons, I wanted to roll this up as a "modified wraith", rather than use a different creature (such as death knight, skeletal warrior, vampire, etc.). I did include the other wraith abilities (most notably, 50% chance that any physical attack misses. All attacks require +1 magical weapon or no damage, etc.)
Wraith was created with PC Gen, and had high stats. (Though 0 str and 0 con due to wraith base monster.)
There were 6 other wights supporting this main bad guy.
The good guys consisted of:
lvl 7 rogue
lvl 6 priest
lvl 6 fighter
lvl 6 sorcerer (Monte Cook's)
lvl 5 monk
lvl 3/2 fighter/rogue
4 x lvl 2 warriors (NPCs)
And the PCs were fresh from a fight with these wights and had some vs. undead equipment (sword x2 vs. undead, ring of negative energy protection 3x/day).
Despite being woken in the middle of the night, all spellcasters had their full contingent of spells (didn't cast any the day before).
The battle:
- Disturbed in the middle of the night, the PC's are alerted to the presence of the undead. They have time to prepare for something -- so they're on guard and create some watch fires for light.
- They didn't know what's coming or when it's coming, so no short-term spells (shield, protection spells) had been cast.
- The wraith's familar (undead raven) lands on the barn, drawing their attention.
- From the shadows of the barn, the undead detact themselves from the shadows and leap (wights) or drift
forward (wraith) to the attack.
Pre-combat:
- Wraith cast shield on self, increasing AC from 25 (base + magical shield and breastplate) to 33.
- Wights appear and move to engage the nearest PCs. Luckily -- this puts most of the party fighters (and
monk, cleric) at the forefront of the attack, and our party's sorceror at the back.
- Wraith begins to glide toward the PCs; appears at the edge of visibility.
Round 1:
- Wights make some unlucky combat rolls, missing (even vs. the level 2 warriors).
- PCs make some average combat rolls, magic missle spell, and a turn attempt, causing some minor damage to
the undead.
- Sorceror shouts warning about the wraith's shield spell.
- Wraith moves to fighter and takes 1 attack with mace (misses).
Round 2:
- PCs do additional damage, outnumbering the foes they're able to surround in some cases, getting several attacks of opportunity when 3 wights flee due to the round 1 turn.
- Sorceror hits wraith with 3 magic missles.
- Combat + the AOO results in 2 dead wights, and 1 that successfully flees.
- The wraith attacks (two attacks; +13/+8) the fighter in combat with mace, causing nominal damage.
- Cleric casts shield of faith spell.
Round 3:
- Both PCs and undead hold their own.
- Sorceror begins Summon Monster II.
- Cleric casts prayer spell.
Round 4:
- Sorceror completes summoning Celestial Eagle appears.
- Eagle slams into the raven (wraith's familar), resulting in a dead raven and a pissed off wraith. [Wraith loses "XP" with the death of the familar ... no effect.]
- Sorceror casts dispel magic (wraith's shield spell) -- fails.
- Wraith -- instead of attacking, casts magic missle and blows away the celestial eagle. The AOO misses.
- Cleric tries to dispel wraith's shield spell -- fails.
Round 5:
- Wraith is becoming surrounded as 2 of the lower levels join combat. Attacks are still missing him, though.
- Wraith steps back out of combat (5') and casts darkness. (He has blind fighting and there are several PCs
in the immediate vicinity, so the confusion itself would be worth while.)
- Cleric is outside of the globe of darkness, sees it for what it is, and orders all PCs to step back. Tries
to turn the remaining wraith and 3 wights.
Round 6:
- Some PCs step back.
- Sorceror finally gets some good dispel rolls! Dispels both the darkness and the shield.
- 2 wights try to flee (reacting to the turn); 1 is killed with AOOs. Another escapes.
Round 7:
- Wraith disarms fighter, and with his second attack hits him with an touch attack (attempts to drain con). Fighter makes a fort save and therefore only takes nominal damage.
- Other party members still trying to hit, largely missing, Sorceror continuing with magic missle spells.
Round 8:
- Unarmed fighter tries to grapple the wraith and pin it to the ground. Note: Can't grapple incorporeal creatures but since this one is magically bound to the equipment, the grapple check succeeds against the equipment, forcing the wraith to the ground.
- Wraith raises his Mace and activates the Terror special. 3 nearby PCs (including the fighter) are held (hold person). [Wraith loses 1 cha point ... no effect though, he wasn't into dating and cha is still very high for sorc spells.]
- As his move-equivalent action; wraith recognises that with 27 hp left of 73 original, it's time to flee.
Flies up 40' into the air; draws only 1 AOO others are held), which misses.
Round 9:
- Monk scales nearby building to get on the roof and continue attack.
- Others begin missle (crossbow, shortbow) attacks from ground.
- Almost everything misses or does virtually no damage.
- Sorceror's magic missle nails it.
- Wraith flees.
- Cleric shouts to "get it!" (otherwise I suspect they would not have pursued.)
Rounds 10+
- Wraith blasts the monk with 3 magic missle and does normal move (flys 40'
horizontally), fleeing.
- Sorceror casts expeditious retreat on self, and moves 60' that round to follow.
- Cleric finishes summoning a dire bat which attacks (misses) the wraith.
- The wraith flees at full speed (40' x 4), the bat continues to follow but only
just stays with it; i.e. AOO only.
(a few rounds pass until the sorceror can run within range)
- The sorceror blasts it with 1 more magic missle spell as he's moving, upon which the wraith changes direction to fly at a 45 degree angle to put the maximum distance between him and the sorceror (Assumed 45
degree angle, means that a 160' move on the diagonal gives 113' of horizontal distance and 113' of vertical distance.)
i.e. the bottom line is that the wraith is now at a height of 153' above ground. By sheer fluke, the range of the Sorceror's magic missle is 160', though on second analysis, he could have used metamagic (enlarge) to hit a farther target.
- Bat gets in a lucky AOO just before the spell expires.
- Sorceror runs (expeditious retreat) at 240', and therefore positions himself so that he'll be directly underneath as the wraith passes overhead (and the sorceror doesn't have to do a run, so will have time in a round to cast a small).
- Wraith barely takes enough damage to drop it (-2 hp), with the Sorceror's last magic missle.
---
Summary:
What I'm getting at is two things:
1. The party was lucky to kill the wraith; it was very close to escaping.
2. There may have been some "tactical errors" (e.g. could have launched magic missles before battle, or
focused on the sorceror, or when deciding to flee, just flee as fast as possible, never stop to take a last
pot shot at a climbing monk, decide to drain the fighter's CON while on the ground, etc.), but what the wraith did was reasonable.
HOWEVER, not withstanding these two points, the party was *never in any real danger*, dispite the fact that
the calculated EL for this was have been many levels higher than the party level.
---
So, what's the EL?
- Wraith (6/5 fighter/sorceror) = CR 5 + 5 + 6 = CR 16
- 6 wights each CR 3 = CR 8
Therefore, DMG would put the EL around 17 (p101), and the exp table on p166 would mark encounter as this as
** = "Not a regular encounter, something strange is going on.". Extrapolating from the footnote (xp is double the amount 2 levels below), would make this:
(Note, "average party levels" is technically a LOW OF 4, because of the NPCs. Which means that adding low
levels NPCs to your party gives you more total exp, though after you divide by the # of party members, it bring the number back down again.)
So if average party level is 4; XP is XP at CR 11 x 2^3 = 12,800 x 8 = 102,400.
/ 10 members = 10,240 per PC.
Or let's be reasonable and use an average party level of 6. XP is 21,600 x 2^2 = 86,400
/ 10 = 8,640 per PC.
Still WAY too high for the encounter considering that the PCs weren't really in any danger.
Other things to think about:
- Should the CR of a mixed class creature not just include its levels? Should instead it be something like:
5 (wraith) + 6 (all levels in largest class) + 1/2 of all subsequent levels?
- Or should it no longer be a base 5 from the wraith, since this particular one isn't ful
