Eldritch Knight strategies

[Fighter1]

If you completely ignore the EKs spellcasting ability, then yes, the fighter is a better fighter, of course.

That was the point of the statement.

If you completely ignore the EKs martial abilities, then yes, the pure arcane caster is simply better, of course, being the better spellcaster.

That was the point of the statement.

But in both cases you are comparing one full character against a fraction of the other character. Not a fair comparison in my eyes.

Then you miss my points.

Not much to say about that.

Because it is obvious

That's certainly right, but not even always, as it depends on the situation.

I have actually never heard anyone make that statement; even a person or two from WoTC (maybe MC? Don’t recall) someplace in cyberspace had stated that – no way an EK is a better caster than a Wizard; not a chance. Wizard has a higher caster level, better DC’s, Better chance to overcome SR, more spells and concentrated ability scores.

And this is simply wrong. It's a nice theory, but nothing more.

Well back at ya then – you are simply wrong – nice theory, but nothing more. I have never seen a multi-class character in a cross discipline class choice, of the same level, consistently outperform single class characters.

Except for stupidly build characters, like Cleric 10 / Wizard 10, or somesuch, multiclass characters are often very capable, especially when you look at the non-spellcasters.

Actually Cleric 10/Wizard 10 is not pushover by any means; how the heck can that be stupid? The insane spell selection available to this character! The abilities…

A simple example, a Fighter 10 compared to a Barbarian 1/Fighter 9. The multiclass character is - in pretty much every situation - more capable. All he misses out is one feat, but instead has huge additional abilities (Rage, Fast Movement), +1 Fort save, +2 hit points, more and better skills. That's certainly better than that 10th (or 11th) feat the fighter has.

Here we go – Barb vs. Fighter again…silly. That is an opinion. Fast movement is nice; but I max that with medium armor. The extra skill points are only at first level; more than the fighter but only if I want them or care about them – a fighter may care less about survival as a skill especially if there is already a Ranger or Scout in the party. Rage is nice; but it only lasts so long – in this example it is really silly; fighting 10th level EL’s with first level raging? Come on. When I could get a feat instead? If you said 6/5 or something that holds far more water. But just like anything else you give something up. In the case of the fighter at first level I give up the ability to start a feat chain that much earlier…

Concentration checks are extremely easy and Mage Slayer is an extremely rare feat, which doesn't even really do anything.

That’s right – dismiss it; make it irrelevant to the discussion so that you can force your point. The only thing this statement does is indicate validity or lack thereof. Mage Slayer is rare? So are EK’s. For any full blown fighter Mage Slayer is a must have; you just grab the two spellcraft cross skill ranks and now no caster can cast defensively in an are you threaten without getting whacked. That is nothing? You negate a fundamental combat advantage of spellcasters with a single feat? The cost is loosing caster levels; fighters don’t cast so there is zero problem.

Actually, yes, I did.

Then why did you ignore it.

Well, the whole amount of two feats I have mentioned above is covered by the bonus feats alone.

Not when I look out here at all the posts made…

The third feat, which is only implied, but you certainly know which I mean, could be chosen at 1st level. Leaves all the other feats free.

And so you don’t choose other feats instead; my point.

All those feats are also very common for such characters (warrior-spellcaster).

Common in your game; I go anywhere in the world things are different.

Not quite as unreasonable as getting the Mage Slayer feat into the equation, really, or

LOL – of course, as I said above; why would anyone take that feat – it would be silly.

'Mr. Fighter has an arrow of 11-headed Hydra Slaying and +5 Composite longbow with True Strike, bane, holy...anything else that can be thought of...', even though that feat wouldn't make the 'playing field even' at all, since it would have no effect at all in that situation.

So the EK can’t cast without getting smacked; taking damage added to his Concentration Check to get the spell off – of course that is irrelevant.

And giving the EK an equivalent weapon would just be fair, don't you think?

Really? And he could use it while in Hydra form?

Also what scenario are you talking about here exactly?

You know – the one where the fighter ahs all the wrong feats and you have the right ones and the environment, situation etc. is all in your favor; just as you outlined.

I didn't even provide a scenario, just a pretty standard procedure of a fighter in just about every combat, and to compare what the EK could do in the same time, round by round, so you can see that the EK will surely not lag behind in dealing damage after the first round.

Yes – again – provided all goes well for the EK which you assume it will by default.

Doesn't seem like you appreciate the effort, tho.

Because I don’t really; as I stated in my previous post; if things were set up for the fighter then no way the EK wins; example; we are in a 15 by 15 room; each of us on one side and I leap attack/heedless charge – with my current fighter when he was 11th level that is an average of 42 points of damage without a critical. You assume that the EK is far enough away on round one to avoid an attack; the Fighter has nothing to allow AoO’s when he gets there and your EK casts and that there is enough room for the Hydra to charge, etc. Set up in your favor.

You need 11th level for an 11-headed hydra, since an 11-headed hydra has 11 HD.

Thank you for that information


Your posts are complete opinion as are mine.

 

[Fighter1]

The future EK looses nothing significant by waiting a further level (to 6th) before switching.

The 6th level grants the Wizard another +1 BAB, +1 on all saves, and more spells.
The 6th level gives the Sorcerer all the above, and a new spell level (3rd).

Sounds like a pretty good trade for what just amounts to a few hit points and the ability to use martial weapons.

I still prefer the bow-based EK myself, but we never saw the wraithstrike spell. Lack of Armoured spell-casting isn't really a problem, and you get the full benefit of your full-BAB and pre-conflict spells right from the get-go.

I put together an EK last night using ranged abilities...you know (as other sobviously due; I wanted to see for myself) with that BAB combined with specializing in rays, ranged touch attacks and such makes the EK a really bad dude at range; melee wise he is still inferior to his other combatant brethren but for ranged spell casting...that BAB makes a huge difference. There would be some "msut ahve" spells involved (like fly & spectral hand) but besides that this could work well - in part my opinion has shifted...

Thus I would then have to say that for an EK that specializes in ranged warfare; he maybe amongst the best avaialble! I am going to toss him "into the arena" this weekend and see what happens.

 

[Cabral]

By the way, because of the discussions of wraithstrike and its brokenness here, I decided to try to Fix it. If you like it, maybe you can try using it with you EK builds

 

[Fighter1]

By the way, because of the discussions of wraithstrike and its brokenness here, I decided to try to Fix it. If you like it, maybe you can try using it with you EK builds

Nice job trying to fix that...but IMO it is still to pwoerful. Just my opinion.

I honestly think it is at the very least is is overpowered beyond comprehension...adn it really can't be fixed. Just my opinion.