Eldrtich Knight vs Spellsword

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Hello,

I'm debating which of these two classes to allow in my game - they seem too close in flavour to allow both. My initial reaction towards the Eldritch Knight is that it is too powerful a class... but I used to think the same thing about the Mystic Theurge. On the other hand, the Spellsword is more in line with the Arcane Trickster ... rather than simply mixing the main abilities of two classes, it gains unique abilities by merging two skill sets into a distinct whole.

Thoughts?

Shawn

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I'm debating which of these two classes to allow in my game - they seem too close in flavour to allow both.

Thoughts?

That you're wrong about them being "too close in flavour to allow both."

 

[UltimaGabe]

Well, the thing about them is that although they're close to the same concept (a fighter/mage), they go about it completely differently. The Eldritch Knight is okay, but not amazing (you get 9 levels of spellcasting, a slightly better hit die, and full BAB, but since you can't wear armor or shields, you only get half of what's necessary to fight in the front lines). The Spellsword, on the other hand, is completely different- I can't recall offhand what BAB it gets (full?), but it only gives half progression, and you get the ability to wear armor with less of a penalty, and the ability to channel spells through your weapons sounds nice, but I haven't actually tested it before.

Personally, I'd say allow them both.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, why not just allow both of them?

If you want only one, take Eldritch Knight. Spell Sword is too narrow in concept.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

Neither is too powerful. Allow 'em both.

 

[Scratched_back]

I'm playing a Sun Elf Fighter1/Wizard5/EK4 at the moment, and I think that the Eldritch Knight PrC is fantastic.

On the other hand, I think the spellsword is rubbish. If you're playing a caster and you pick a PrC dropping anything more than one (at the MOST two) levels of spell progression, something is wrong (Speaking purely mechanically of course, excluding roleplay choices).

An EK could take Still Spell, cast anything he wanted in full plate with a tower shield memmed at one level higher and STILL be ahead on spells!

EDIT: Ahem, sorry. I forgot you asked which you should allow, not which is better.

Allow them both, if some sucker wants to play a spellsword, that's his problem

 

[Anti-Sean]

On the other hand, I think the spellsword is rubbish. If you're playing a caster and you pick a PrC dropping anything more than one (at the MOST two) levels of spell progression, something is wrong (Speaking purely mechanically of course, excluding roleplay choices).

But if you're playing a fighter with some spellcasting ability, then the spellsword is oooooh so right!

 

[JimAde]

Or like an NPC in my game: A wizard who thinks like a fighter. This guy is a Paladin1/Wiz7 who loves to mix it up in combat. Spellsword is right up his alley.

Yes, I know it's horribly sub-optimal, but this way he doesn't overshadow the PCs...

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

But if you're playing a fighter with some spellcasting ability, then the spellsword is oooooh so right!

True, dat. EK is better if you're a spellcaster who wants to also do some fighting. Spellsword is better if you're a fighter who wants to do some spellcasting.

Which you want to allow depends on whether you like chocolate in your peanut butter, or peanut butter in your chocolate.

 

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Neither is too powerful. Allow 'em both.

The thing that bugs me about the Eldritch Knight is that it doesn't seem to require too many tradeoffs for a wizard. From the perspective of a fighter there are plenty of drawbacks: loss of feats, lower hit die and an inability to wear heavy armor and cast spells at full effect.

Compare a Wiz 9 / Fi 1 / EK 10 to a Wiz 20. The EK gains +5 BAB, and an average of 15 more hit points, and skill with all martial weapons. She loses 3 bonus feats, but gains 2 fighter feats instead. The familiar has fewer powers, but more hp than a wizard's familiar. The EK loses 2 levels of spellcasting, so two fewer 9th level spells per day.

So the question remains: is +5 BAB, martial weapon proficiency and 15 hp (20 if Fighter is the first level) a fair exchange for 2 9th level spells per day, 4 less spells in the spellbook and a less versatile but tougher familiar?

Y'know, I think I might have just convinced myself that you're right.