Eldrtich Knight vs Spellsword

[Hairfoot]

In any case, the Battle Caster feat from Complete Adventurer has rendered the spellsword obsolete by allowing arcanists to cast in any armour.

A wiz or sorcerer would need to take a level of bard/hexblade/anything else which allows light-armour casting, but it's more optimal than throwing levels into spellsword.

 

[Azrael]

In any case, the Battle Caster feat from Complete Adventurer has rendered the spellsword obsolete by allowing arcanists to cast in any armour.

A wiz or sorcerer would need to take a level of bard/hexblade/anything else which allows light-armour casting, but it's more optimal than throwing levels into spellsword.

A level in those classes wouldn't allow you to cast your wizard or sorcerer spells in armour without an arcane failure chance, so battle caster wouldn't help you much in that case.

 

[Thanee]

In any case, the Battle Caster feat from Complete Adventurer has rendered the spellsword obsolete by allowing arcanists to cast in any armour.

It's from Complete Arcane, and the feat does not allow casting in armor at all. It only improves an existing class ability, which only counts for the class that gets it, not for all the classes the character has.

A wiz or sorcerer would need to take a level of bard/hexblade/anything else which allows light-armour casting, but it's more optimal than throwing levels into spellsword.

Yeah, great, then your one level of bard/hexblade/anything can use its bard/hexblade/anything spells in heavier armor and your wizard levels still cannot *and* has weaker spells, because of the completely pointless multiclassing.

Sorry, but this doesn't work at all.

Otherwise you could simply make a cleric 1/wizard X and don't even bother about the feat...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

For a somewhat better explanation... it's not really an ability of the bard to be able to cast arcane spells in light armor, but rather a feature of the bard's spells, which are more simple than typical arcane (read: sorcerer/wizard) spells and therefore can be cast even when slightly restricted with light armor. At least the bard class description actually lists that as a reason.

In the same way, divine magic requires much simpler gestics and therefore can be cast while armored. It's not that clerics and druids are better trained in spellcasting (they most likely are not), but rather, that their magic is much more simple to do, if you have that certain something required (connection to your deity or whatever).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Diirk]

I still think you need racial hit dice to actually get those, a creature with only 1 HD in the MM and class levels replaces the feats with those from the class.

Bye
Thanee

It isn't a feat, its a racial trait. All outsiders are proficient with all martial weapons, just like all outsiders have darkvision. Its the features that are dependant on racial hit dice, not the traits. If you can find any rule that says otherwise, I'd be very interested in seeing it.

If you wanted to say that racial traits are dependant on having racial hit dice as well, I guess that means humans with class levels don't need to eat, breathe or sleep after all...

 

[Unseenlibrarian]

I still think you need racial hit dice to actually get those, a creature with only 1 HD in the MM and class levels replaces the feats with those from the class.

Bye
Thanee

As precedent, I believe the Goliath gets profiency in all simple weapons for being a monstrous humanoid, and has no racial HD.

 

[Thanee]

I meant the 'proficiencies' not 'feats'.

Well, I'm not sure about it, I just think it is that way, or should be.

The Planetouched, for example, have a list of racial traits, but no mentioning of proficiencies (which could mean anything, of course).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Diirk]

The proficiencies are listed in the racial traits of the Outsider type. Compare it to the Astral Deva for example, which uses the heavy mace, yet there is no mention in its description anywhere of being proficient with it... thats because Outsider's by their nature are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Mentioning it twice would be redundant (and while the books are redundant in many places, lack of redundancy shouldn't be taken as proof to the contrary)

Now in the case of planetouched which are intended to be played as characters, it could very well be an oversight that they still have martial weapon proficiency. But they do, as do the genasai. Personally I think thats a good thing because they're rather suboptimal LA +1 races anyway.

 

[Thanee]

The question there is, is the racial trait list in the planetouched write-up finite or in addition to the one in the back?

I'd think so, because it does list Darkvision specifically, for example, which is also in the list in the back. As native outsiders, they eat, sleep and breathe, so this has not to be mentioned specifically, as that's the default, anyways. Also the native outsiders can be raised as normal, so that 'no dual nature' stuff is irrelevant.

This leaves the proficiencies, which strongly look like what you get when you pick up a class, so I would associate them with the outsider monster class (i.e. racial hit dice) only.

So, I believe, that the write-up is, indeed, finite and not to be seen as an addition to the one in the back, which in turn leads to the conclusion, that only outsiders with racial hit dice get the proficiencies.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Prism]

, I believe, that the write-up is, indeed, finite and not to be seen as an addition to the one in the back, which in turn leads to the conclusion, that only outsiders with racial hit dice get the proficiencies.

Bye
Thanee

By looking at the plane touched example it is indeed difficult to tell whether that list is finite. However if you look at a different example with both a stat block and an 'as a character' write up, say hound archon, you will see that the eating/sleeping and martial weapon proficiencies are also missing. I don't believe the racial write ups are complete and you still need to refer to the back of the book

I don't believe that the removal of the hit dice for 1HD outsiders changes this