Electric Car Ownership - Any Experiences?

[Kannik]

1. costs the same as a gas vehicle without the subsidies

re: costs, another flip in the mind to do with EVs is that with an EV you're kind of buying up front some of the items you would parcel out later with an ICE. So even though the initial price is higher, it evens out or you even come ahead in the long run. For ex, the average maintenance cost for an ICE is around $900 -- with an EV there's almost $0 except for tires. (My maintenance guide only lists 4 things, which are tire rotations, air filters, check brake fluid, and check battery coolant every 4 years.) As for tires, so long as you aren't pulling donuts I've found that they don't erode that much faster than my previous car, and the tires I bought as a replacement were EV specific to have longer wear times. As for the 'fuel', it's often around half the cost per year. I kept my last car 18 years and I expect to do the same with this one, and I figure in the end I'll come out nicely ahead (with a nice chunk of extra cash) in terms of a lower overall cost of ownership.

I still have huge concerns about the environmental impact in the making of EVs and where a lot of them are being made.

This is a longer conversation perhaps beyond the scope of this forum, but there are indeed some concerns (especially in terms of mining and at the same time it is also worth remembering that oil production is and has been itself very deleterious (including in terms of social costs and exploitation).

Interestingly, and perhaps nicely, battery tech is actively seeking to develop away from using those rare earth minerals that cause most of the issues onto more readily available and robust base materials. Perhaps mostly due to cost/concerns for single-sourcing issues, but it has a nice knock down effect that it will also reduce the initial environmental load.

 

[Cruentus]

We bought a Kia EV6 about 4 months ago after our 2010 Prius Hybrid reached its last legs after about 210,000 miles. We’ve been enjoying it a lot more after we had the home charger installed - which should have been the very first thing we did - after that, the normal running around/back and forth to school/work/etc are a breeze.

We’ve had some ups and downs (more downs) trying to navigate public charging, both before we got the home charger and when we go on trips. Infrastructure isn’t great, and I live in the 6th or 7th largest city in the US. Though I understand that will change when they move to a standard charging plug, which ai understand is in 2025. So looks like I’ll need some sort of adapter.

The only downside was finding out the instructions for charging recommend only charging to 80% charge, which gets us 240 miles or so, on a ‘full’ charge. Though it does say if you’re going on a long trip, you can charge to 100%, which gets 280ish? So it’s not nearly what I was hoping for, but seems in line with most EV ‘SUV’s’ out there (the EV6 is a 4 door hatchback).

So far, so good. I do enjoy the pickup and go the car has for merging onto highways.

 

[prabe]

We bought a Kia EV6 about 4 months ago after our 2010 Prius Hybrid reached its last legs after about 210,000 miles. We’ve been enjoying it a lot more after we had the home charger installed - which should have been the very first thing we did - after that, the normal running around/back and forth to school/work/etc are a breeze.

We’ve had some ups and downs (more downs) trying to navigate public charging, both before we got the home charger and when we go on trips. Infrastructure isn’t great, and I live in the 6th or 7th largest city in the US. Though I understand that will change when they move to a standard charging plug, which ai understand is in 2025. So looks like I’ll need some sort of adapter.

The only downside was finding out the instructions for charging recommend only charging to 80% charge, which gets us 240 miles or so, on a ‘full’ charge. Though it does say if you’re going on a long trip, you can charge to 100%, which gets 280ish? So it’s not nearly what I was hoping for, but seems in line with most EV ‘SUV’s’ out there (the EV6 is a 4 door hatchback).

So far, so good. I do enjoy the pickup and go the car has for merging onto highways.

We have an EV6, and we figure that since we're not charging the car daily--maybe twice a week--that we're fine just charging it to full on a Level 2 charger (such as the one in our garage). We don't charge it past 80% on fast chargers, though, in part because that last 20% is slow and in part because we've gotten the sense that lots of fast charging isn't great for the battery.

 

[Umbran]

We can schedule like that, either using an app or using the UI in the car, we just mostly don't.

Well, in order to encourage people to charge during low-load times, my utility gives a rebate for it. So, being able to schedule - plug in the car, and walk away, and have the charging automatically start later - will make it cheaper.

And yes, we could do that timing on the car as well. But for our use it makes sense to allow the car to charge whenever, but impose a schedule at home.

 

[Umbran]

The only downside was finding out the instructions for charging recommend only charging to 80% charge, which gets us 240 miles or so, on a ‘full’ charge. Though it does say if you’re going on a long trip, you can charge to 100%, which gets 280ish? So it’s not nearly what I was hoping for, but seems in line with most EV ‘SUV’s’ out there (the EV6 is a 4 door hatchback).

Yeah, that's a matter of maintaining battery life. The batteries do better if for everyday use you only charge up to 80% or so. They also don't recommend doing much driving in the lower 20% of the battery either.

Charging up and running low every once in a while, however, are good for the car's systems to keep calibrated. So, if you know you have a longer drive ahead, charging to the top, if you are going to discharge that top 20% quickly, is okay.

 

[prabe]

Well, in order to encourage people to charge during low-load times, my utility gives a rebate for it. So, being able to schedule - plug in the car, and walk away, and have the charging automatically start later - will make it cheaper.

And yes, we could do that timing on the car as well. But for our use it makes sense to allow the car to charge whenever, but impose a schedule at home.

Yeah--different people in different situations will have different use-cases.

 

[Umbran]

Well, in order to encourage people to charge during low-load times, my utility gives a rebate for it. So, being able to schedule - plug in the car, and walk away, and have the charging automatically start later - will make it cheaper.

...That is, if I can get that system to work. :/

All the utility's documentation says that you need to give them information on the car OR the charger, so they can get use information and know when you were charging in those low-use times.

And that's fair enough. However, the workflow in the app they use does not allow you to bypass putting in the vehicle information, and that requires an account with the car manufacturer that costs $15/ month.

So, now I end up spending the rebate on an account that allows me to get the rebate? That's suboptimal. I'm checking with the utility to see if I am missing something.

 

[Kannik]

We have an EV6, and we figure that since we're not charging the car daily--maybe twice a week--that we're fine just charging it to full on a Level 2 charger (such as the one in our garage). We don't charge it past 80% on fast chargers, though, in part because that last 20% is slow and in part because we've gotten the sense that lots of fast charging isn't great for the battery.

From what I understand, for Li-Ion batteries (and my laptop does this as well) it's best to keep the state of charge between 30% and 80% for maximum longevity. Also slower charging is better than faster charging (though for EVs that's more the diff between 240v/Level 2 and 480v/Level 3 charging, not so much between 120v and 240v charging). So it can be best to drive to about 40ish percent and charge up to 80ish percent frequently, rather than drive it to 0 and charge to 100.

If you don't have a 240v line installed at home, that could mean charging 1/week at a 240v to 80%, and using your 120v whenever you are at home to top up as much as you can. (Say you charge to 80% 1/w and with home charging by the time next week you're ready to go to the Level 2 charger your car is around 40% charge due to the home charging -- and again depending how much you drive the 120v at home might suffice.)

As to the actual impact on the battery, it might not all be that much. From what I've read, for 1st gen Model S owners, who had free 480v/Level 3 supercharging, blasting their batteries to full each week, after 8 years of ownership it might have taken 10%-15% off the battery capacity. So a 300mi range car now tops out at 265mi or so (or 212mi at 80% charge). Conjecturing here (I am not a battery scientist ) keeping things in the sweet spot in terms of state of charge + charging speed might result in say half of that degradation? So 285mi max range after nearly a decade of use.

 

[Ryujin]

...That is, if I can get that system to work. :/

All the utility's documentation says that you need to give them information on the car OR the charger, so they can get use information and know when you were charging in those low-use times.

And that's fair enough. However, the workflow in the app they use does not allow you to bypass putting in the vehicle information, and that requires an account with the car manufacturer that costs $15/ month.

So, now I end up spending the rebate on an account that allows me to get the rebate? That's suboptimal. I'm checking with the utility to see if I am missing something.

At least you'll still get the lower rate if you charge off-peak, with or without the app.

 

[Cruentus]

From what I understand, for Li-Ion batteries (and my laptop does this as well) it's best to keep the state of charge between 30% and 80% for maximum longevity. Also slower charging is better than faster charging (though for EVs that's more the diff between 240v/Level 2 and 480v/Level 3 charging, not so much between 120v and 240v charging). So it can be best to drive to about 40ish percent and charge up to 80ish percent frequently, rather than drive it to 0 and charge to 100.

If you don't have a 240v line installed at home, that could mean charging 1/week at a 240v to 80%, and using your 120v whenever you are at home to top up as much as you can. (Say you charge to 80% 1/w and with home charging by the time next week you're ready to go to the Level 2 charger your car is around 40% charge due to the home charging -- and again depending how much you drive the 120v at home might suffice.)

As to the actual impact on the battery, it might not all be that much. From what I've read, for 1st gen Model S owners, who had free 480v/Level 3 supercharging, blasting their batteries to full each week, after 8 years of ownership it might have taken 10%-15% off the battery capacity. So a 300mi range car now tops out at 265mi or so (or 212mi at 80% charge). Conjecturing here (I am not a battery scientist ) keeping things in the sweet spot in terms of state of charge + charging speed might result in say half of that degradation? So 285mi max range after nearly a decade of use.

This is when I glaze over and think back wistfully on my Prius Hybrid. No mental mathematics, great MPG, and I probably could have kept it going another 100k miles. I know that the newness of the EV will eventually feel normal, but all the research I did into all this stuff made (and still makes) my brain hurt.

And as @Umbran mentioned, there was still the Kia Connect or whatever service for however much a month, but the dealership (despite multiple followups on my part) never helped me get it sorted. Which is fine, I don't need another 'subscription' in my life, and I'll manage just fine using my phone for navigation, etc. Though I'm sure there are some quality of life improvments that I'm missing out on. I know its all a growing field, but I do understand when people are hesitant to lean into the technology.