Elemental Monk Fix

[Xeviat]

I like the idea of a bonus action for the spells but I'm also a little uneasy about it. Do we really need bonus action Fireballs?

I would reduce the cost of the spells first and grant some cantrips before making everything a bonus action.

So, Fireball is a little high damage, but lets see what this would look like.

For 1 action, 1 bonus action, and 4 ki, a 9th level monk would have 2 attacks (generally melee or very short range thrown) for 1d6+5 damage and a fireball for 8d6 to everything in a burst (including self potentially; 28 damage); for a potential single target total of 45. 3 extra rounds of no ki usage would be 3 attacks at 1d6+5, 25.5 each round for 76.5 over 3, plus the 45 for a total of 121.5 to 1 target max and 28 to multiples.

Over 4 rounds, for 1 action and 1 bonus action and 1 ki each round, the same monk could do 4 attacks each round, or 34 each round, or 136 max single target.

The burst potential is definitely higher, but I think this highlights an issue that the monk has no burst damage potential. A paladin can smite with higher level spells but a monk is always stuck using 1 ki for flurry of blows. Flurry over 4 rounds is better than 1 fireball and martial arts for 3 rounds. And that's a high damage spell for it's level.

Remember, this is the Elemental Monk's class ability, extra stuff to spend their Ki on, yet they get no extra ki to use them. Many of the other monk subclass features don't cost ki.

I would just be worried about any buffs to the Elemental Monk requiring subsequent buffs to the Sun Soul Monk.

 

[Xeviat]

How does this house rule stack up to the Way of the Four Elements Remastered (reformatted version)?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Do you think the house rule is better, worse, or just different than the variant subclass?

I'm considering which option to allow to my players (maybe I'll allow them the choice).

Most of the Remastered version is still just extra abilities to spend ki on.

Look at the Paladin. Their subclasses get 2 extra spells known per spell level on top of other class abilities. Getting extra things to spend your same resources on isn't really a very big ability; it's expanded options, not additional power per say. The extra abilities of the Shadow Monk or Sun Soul monk come with an added benefit of being cheaper than spells or having the bonus action casting, or simply having no base ki cost or being unlimited. I haven't fully processed all of the Remastered Elements abilities, but I suspect most of them are just spells, no?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Most of the Remastered version is still just extra abilities to spend ki on.

Look at the Paladin. Their subclasses get 2 extra spells known per spell level on top of other class abilities. Getting extra things to spend your same resources on isn't really a very big ability; it's expanded options, not additional power per say. The extra abilities of the Shadow Monk or Sun Soul monk come with an added benefit of being cheaper than spells or having the bonus action casting, or simply having no base ki cost or being unlimited. I haven't fully processed all of the Remastered Elements abilities, but I suspect most of them are just spells, no?

It's a mix of spells and other features. The spells also cost less ki. The spending cap is reduced to keep the effective spell level max the same(ish).

 

[FrogReaver]

I like the idea of a bonus action for the spells but I'm also a little uneasy about it. Do we really need bonus action Fireballs?

I would reduce the cost of the spells first and grant some cantrips before making everything a bonus action.

Let’s be honest. I don’t foresee making 2 attacks at d8+5 and using fireball on the same turn at level 11 to be really problematic. In fact I don’t think anyone will find that to be the case.

The thing is at level 11 as it stands currently I’m much better off using flurry of blows and stunning strike for a total of 2 ki than almost ever spending 4 ki on a standard fireball.

 

[FrogReaver]

It's a mix of spells and other features. The spells also cost less ki. The spending cap is reduced to keep the effective spell level max the same(ish).

At level 3 you can potentially cast 9 level 1 spells in a day. That sounds a bit strong for that level for a character than can also melee as well as any other at that level. At level 4 you can potentially cast 12 level 1 spells in a day. That all sounds like a little much to me.

I think in the mid levels 5-10 his version will feel a little too weak because casting a bunch of level 1 and 2 spells per day with your action isn't going to beat out the monks staple of flurry of blows and stunning strike. In other words the abilities you are going to gravitate towards aren't going to be the offensive spells but the non-ki attack enhancing abilities and some defensive abilities. That will make for a much different experience than the bonus action abilities my suggestion allows. In fact I can't find a single level 6 ability listed that I think is even close in power to flurry of blows and stunning strike.

At level 12 his version and my bonus action idea are very comparable. He allows 12 fireballs to be cast per day and a bonus action attack to be made with each. My version allows 9 fireballs to be cast per day as a bonus action and thus 2 attacks from the attack action with each. That's actually very comparable IMO.

That said all the ideas he provides aren't unworkable. More elemental disciplines known is a great idea. More elemental discipline choices is also a great idea.

 

[Xeviat]

At level 3 you can potentially cast 9 level 1 spells in a day. That sounds a bit strong for that level for a character than can also melee as well as any other at that level. At level 4 you can potentially cast 12 level 1 spells in a day. That all sounds like a little much to me.

Warlock has 6 level 2 spells at 3rd level; they're a full caster and agonizing blast gives them a weapon quality ranged attack, or they can be meleeing as a blade lock or a hexblade. But, yeah, this is also why I don't want the Ki costs of the spells reduced. Monk ki x2 (half caster) x3 (short rests) is REALLY close to the amount of spell points in the DMG spell point system.