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Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer
- Thread starter Psion
- Start date
Kemrain
First Post
RW,
My game uses Ken Hood's 3.3 Grim and Gritty rules. Because of this, my GM has ruled that extra d6's of damage (or healing) cost 2mp, instead of 1 mp. We're ok with this, but it's brought forth a problem...
The Heal spell, and Evoke Death, both require you to trade in dice for extras. My GM doesn't want the costs to be doubled, but simply halving the die cost doesn't seem to come out right, as many of them are odd. Can you think of a way to adjust the costs while not altering the levels at which you can use the spells?
- Kemrain the Evoked.
My game uses Ken Hood's 3.3 Grim and Gritty rules. Because of this, my GM has ruled that extra d6's of damage (or healing) cost 2mp, instead of 1 mp. We're ok with this, but it's brought forth a problem...
The Heal spell, and Evoke Death, both require you to trade in dice for extras. My GM doesn't want the costs to be doubled, but simply halving the die cost doesn't seem to come out right, as many of them are odd. Can you think of a way to adjust the costs while not altering the levels at which you can use the spells?
- Kemrain the Evoked.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Fatigue
Fatigue is a side effect of lack of sleep/rest. Your mage could concevably stay awake for days on end and stay fresh and ready to go.. but never regain any MP. You need sleep/rest for that.
I am looking starting a campaign after the current scenario pans out, which will be an Eberron setting with lots of Ken Hood's stuff and TEoM. I plan on having all magic deal/heal D4 instead of D6. With the G-n-G cap of 4D, it takes at least 2 heal/evoke spells to heal/deal the 25 health points to kill a target.
As an aside, I also plan on extending the health bar by 5 more blocks and require a FORT save to stay awake/mobile while in the 'Dying' category. This allows for a bit more heroics and makes undead/constructs a bit nastier.
Primitive - the wondering where Kemrain lives and if its close enough to join in a game
Fatigue is a side effect of lack of sleep/rest. Your mage could concevably stay awake for days on end and stay fresh and ready to go.. but never regain any MP. You need sleep/rest for that.
I am looking starting a campaign after the current scenario pans out, which will be an Eberron setting with lots of Ken Hood's stuff and TEoM. I plan on having all magic deal/heal D4 instead of D6. With the G-n-G cap of 4D, it takes at least 2 heal/evoke spells to heal/deal the 25 health points to kill a target.
As an aside, I also plan on extending the health bar by 5 more blocks and require a FORT save to stay awake/mobile while in the 'Dying' category. This allows for a bit more heroics and makes undead/constructs a bit nastier.
Primitive - the wondering where Kemrain lives and if its close enough to join in a game
Kemrain
First Post
Primitive Screwhead said:
How do we define relatively? If I'm not tired anymore, aren't I 'relatively' rested? I'm quite suprised that I've never seen d20 rules for sleep depravation. I'm told it can kill. Sounds like stat damage, to me.EoMr said:
I play with Ken's 3.3 rules, not his newly released revision. I looked at the new stuff, but it just doesn't boat my float. In my game, we double the cost of damage dice and use the Odds are One rule to keep Mages from wiping the world clean of all life. Works well enough. Wasn't aware there was a dice cap in the new GnG rules.Primitive Screwhead said:
Boy I'm off topic.
I find myself living in Massachusetts, though I may be moving to New Hampshire or Western MA soon. Since you asked. <grin>Primitive Screwhead said:Primitive - the wondering where Kemrain lives and if its close enough to join in a game
- Kemrain the Relatively Well Rested.
Re: Metamagic Feats
Thanks for the feedback people. I had forgotten about the general mod for delay. But I think that I need to revise my question.
How could/would you impliment these feats -- as feats -- not just through combining spell lists?
As I understand it the EoM system was designed to provide flexibility as well as freshness. In the revised edition Ryan has also attempted to streamline play. Thus, I'd like to be able to incorporate new, fresh material produced for the standard spell system into the EoM system...and I'd like to do so without needing a "shoehorn" every time. Sometimes it is fun to try to see who to duplicate a d20 spell using EoM rules, but sometimes I'd like to be able to keep it simple.
Take the Subdual Substitution feat in particular. I have a character who wants to only use subdual damage. The use of the Evoke Life 1 list is fine except that it reduces the power of all combat spells by 1 MP and prevents me from creating a catrip damage effect (because it becomes a combined spell). While that might be fine, the use of a feat to accomplish that same effect (with no spell costs in the traditional rules) would be preferable in this case in particular.
So I guess my question to the designer in particular, but anyone if they have a good answer, is would it be in the spirit of the EoM rules to use the subdual substitution feat as written using EoM spells; thus, allowing a mage to take the feat and change his evoke spells to do subdual damage without requiring the use of the Evoke Life spell list? Or does that break the spirit of the EoM spell design system? If it is in the spirit, would it only work with signature spells or could it be applied to all spells or would it vary like the EoM Quicken feat?
Split Ray has the same problem that in the d20 rules it doesn't "cost" any spell levels to get a limited general modification EoM effect. How would you impliment that as a feat in EoM?
The Purify Spell feat is a little harder to gauge. It has a spell level cost (+1). Assuming that you allowed it as a feat (particularly as it is extremely difficult to simulate unlike some of the other feats), what cost would it have in terms of MP?
Energy Substitution and Admixture, as feats, seem to go against the spirit of the EoM rules and so I'd agree with the suggestions that those remain just use of or addition of other Evoke lists, but that brings up the question of prestige classes. How would you handle the requirement for a prestige class that needed one of these feats (Elemental Savant from T&B for example)?
Thanks for the feedback people. I had forgotten about the general mod for delay. But I think that I need to revise my question.
How could/would you impliment these feats -- as feats -- not just through combining spell lists?
As I understand it the EoM system was designed to provide flexibility as well as freshness. In the revised edition Ryan has also attempted to streamline play. Thus, I'd like to be able to incorporate new, fresh material produced for the standard spell system into the EoM system...and I'd like to do so without needing a "shoehorn" every time. Sometimes it is fun to try to see who to duplicate a d20 spell using EoM rules, but sometimes I'd like to be able to keep it simple.
Take the Subdual Substitution feat in particular. I have a character who wants to only use subdual damage. The use of the Evoke Life 1 list is fine except that it reduces the power of all combat spells by 1 MP and prevents me from creating a catrip damage effect (because it becomes a combined spell). While that might be fine, the use of a feat to accomplish that same effect (with no spell costs in the traditional rules) would be preferable in this case in particular.
So I guess my question to the designer in particular, but anyone if they have a good answer, is would it be in the spirit of the EoM rules to use the subdual substitution feat as written using EoM spells; thus, allowing a mage to take the feat and change his evoke spells to do subdual damage without requiring the use of the Evoke Life spell list? Or does that break the spirit of the EoM spell design system? If it is in the spirit, would it only work with signature spells or could it be applied to all spells or would it vary like the EoM Quicken feat?
Split Ray has the same problem that in the d20 rules it doesn't "cost" any spell levels to get a limited general modification EoM effect. How would you impliment that as a feat in EoM?
The Purify Spell feat is a little harder to gauge. It has a spell level cost (+1). Assuming that you allowed it as a feat (particularly as it is extremely difficult to simulate unlike some of the other feats), what cost would it have in terms of MP?
Energy Substitution and Admixture, as feats, seem to go against the spirit of the EoM rules and so I'd agree with the suggestions that those remain just use of or addition of other Evoke lists, but that brings up the question of prestige classes. How would you handle the requirement for a prestige class that needed one of these feats (Elemental Savant from T&B for example)?
Kemrain said:
I would look at it as, while the mage is not fatigued any more, they still haven't rested. The requirement for regaining MP is "relatively well rested." So "not being tired or fatigued" is not "relatively well rested."
Think of it like this perhaps. When you wake up from a relatively good sleep you are full of energy, throughout the day your energy levels drop and you are not at your peak. However, you are not fatigued yet and probably won't be until long after the day is over (like after an all night gaming marathon
).Remove fatigue would make it so that you aren't stumbling around with blurry vision and fuzzy thoughts due to lack of rest, but it doesn't bring you back to your peak of rest.
RangerWickett
Legend
astriemer said:
Generally, I feel that any existing metamagic feat could work just as well in the EOM system. Basically, every +1 level would be the same as +2 MP. But within the rules, you must decide whether to apply metamagic feats when creating a signature spell. I think I might, however, include a feat in LA that lets you swap in metamagic feats without increasing spell time.
Subdual Substitution would be fine as a feat, as would 'Split Spell'.
Split Spell [Metamagic]
You may apply this feat to any spell that has a targeted numeric effect (such as damage, healing, bonuses, or penalties). Instead of affecting one target, it affects two, both of which must be within range. Each target receives half the numeric effect of the spell, round down. A spell modified by Split Spell does not change its MP cost.
The Purify Spell feat might work best as something like 'Good Specialist,' so that if you know enough Good spell lists, you could take this feat and automatically apply its benefit. Or it could work as a normal metamagic feat, increasing MP cost +2.
I really feel this is a minor problem. Just as long as the character fulfills a some requirement with a similar cost and feel, balance should be about the same. Maybe require the character to take Extra Spell List and choose a spell of a certain element. Of course, mixing core prestige classes with EOM spellcasting might get a little tricky, especially for those core PrCs that hew closely to the arcane/divine divide.
RangerWickett said:
Oh, I like that idea.
I've got another question regarding the Evoke Ice side effect. I suppose that I need a clarification first though. If I use this as part of a spell, does the entrapment have to be made of ice? What if I wanted to entrap a creature in bands of metal. Would that look something like...
Bands of Steel
Evoke Ice 3/Create Metal 1/Gen 1
Total MP: 5
Range: Close
Area: one creature up to Large size
Duration: 1 minute
Save: none
Spell Resistance: yes
Description: The caster creates bands of metal which with a successful ranged touch attack surround the target and render it immoble for the duration. The creature can use a full round action to attempt to break free with a successful Strength check (DC 20).
Costs: 3 MP moderate ice special effect, 1 MP create metal, 1 MP range.
Assuming that that is the correct way to create that effect, my questions become 1) Do I have to suffocate the creature (I assume not), 2) How to increase the strength of the binding (requiring more than DC 20 to break free)?
The two thoughts I had were to somehow use the Intensify feat or to somehow use the Infuse spell, but I wanted some feedback.
Evoke Space
I have question about the Evoke Space side effect. For a Moderate effect you can affect either etheral or material and you get to choose which. Did you intentionally not create a Major or Extreme side effect that allows the spell to affect creatures in either plane simultaneously? If it wasn't intentional, would the effect be Major or Extreme?
Thanks again!
I have question about the Evoke Space side effect. For a Moderate effect you can affect either etheral or material and you get to choose which. Did you intentionally not create a Major or Extreme side effect that allows the spell to affect creatures in either plane simultaneously? If it wasn't intentional, would the effect be Major or Extreme?
Thanks again!
