Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer

[RangerWickett]

Some interesting Metamagic ideas in the House Rules forum.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1666033#post1666033

I think, in particular, the Insidious Magic feat is a good one for Charm and Compel Specialists. Doesn't step on the toes of the Subtle Compulsion ability too much, and it's especially useful on non-casters.

The idea's a good one, even if that Spellcraft check might not be right. I think this would make a superb Charm or Compel Specialist feat.

- Kemrain the Insidious.

Sounds good.

 

[astriemer]

Elemental damage fill out

I was considering the damage for the elemental weapon enhancement (Create Element) and was considering filling out the chart for the missing MP values and to provide alternate damage dice. Based on average damages this is what I came up with.

MP Damage Average Damage
1 +1d4 2.5
1 +1d6 3.5
2 +1d8 4.5
2 +2d4 5
2 +1d10 5.5
3 +1d12 6.5
3 +2d6 7
3 +3d4 7.5
4 +2d8 9
4 +4d4 10
5 +3d6 10.5
5 +1d20 10.5
6 +2d10 11
7 +5d4 12.5
7 +2d12 13
7 +3d8 13.5
8 +4d6 14
9 +6d4 15
10 +3d10 16.5
11 +7d4 17.5
11 +5d6 17.5
12 +4d8 18
13 +3d12 19.5
14 +8d4 20
15 +6d6 21
15 +2d20 21
16 +4d10 22
17 +9d4 22.5
17 +5d8 22.5
18 +4d10+1 23
19 +7d6 24.5
20 +10d4 25
21 +4d12 26
22 +6d8 27
23 +11d4 27.5
23 +5d10 27.5
24 +8d6 28


It allows you to have xD4, xD6, xD8, xD10, and xD12 for your added damage as well as gives you a choice of damage at a few MP cost points.

Presumably you could use the chart to substitute damage dice for Evoke spells as well so that your 6 MP fireball does 4d10 damage instead of 7d6 damage (though were I to try that option, I'd probably only allow choosing lesser average damages (or perhaps up by .5 average, allowing the caster to use 10d4 for 6 MP, but no higher).

Are my assumptions reasonable? Or am I missing a loophole?

On a related note, I was considering saying that if you halved the damage the spell causes up front, you could make it a no save (and no need to hit) spell such as magic missile. Thus with Evoke spells 1 MP would get you a 1d6 no save attack, 3 MP would create a 2d6 no save, 5 MP = 3d6, etc.

Is that still balanced? If not, why not?

 

[RangerWickett]

On a related note, I was considering saying that if you halved the damage the spell causes up front, you could make it a no save (and no need to hit) spell such as magic missile. Thus with Evoke spells 1 MP would get you a 1d6 no save attack, 3 MP would create a 2d6 no save, 5 MP = 3d6, etc.

Is that still balanced? If not, why not?

As to the first question, I suppose it's balanced; I just wanted to keep things simple by using just one type of die.

The 'magic missile' effect sounds balanced too. To convert a magic missile being cast by a 9th level wizard, in EOM it'd be Evoke Force 9/Gen 2.

That's 10d6 halved to 5d6 (statistically nearly identical to 5d4+5) so that there's no save. Then 2 MP for range. You end up spending 11 MP for an effect that is costed as a 1st level spell. Yikes. Of course, that's assuming you're hitting just one target. If you're spreading out the damage, you could do Evoke Force 1/Gen 4 and have 1 MP for a 10-ft. radius, 1 MP for discerning, and 2 MP for range, doing 1d6 damage, no save. Hm.

*nods* I think it's balanced.

 

[astriemer]

As to the first question, I suppose it's balanced; I just wanted to keep things simple by using just one type of die.
.

I figured that's what you had done. I created the list for myself trying to convert some standard spells that weren't using d6 for damage. I was primarily posting the other die types as an FYI though I wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed something that made it not reasonable to do the die conversions.

As I am trying to walk the path I'll only ask one question today!

I'm trying to simulate a spell from the Planar Handbook called Babau Slime. It is a 3rd level druid/wizard/sorcerer spell with a duration of 1 min./level that does the following: coats the target's skin, armor, and equipment with an acidic slimy jelly that does not harm the target. Any weapon (including natural attacks) that touches the target takes 1d8 points of acid damage and the weapon's hardness does not reduce the damage. A magic weapon or a creature's natural attacks gets a Reflex save to avoid the damage. How would I create something like this?

My first thought was to use Evoke Acid and just divide the dice out amongst attacks (thus Evoke Acid 5/Gen 1 for 6d6 damage lasting 10 minutes, but that would only allow 6 touches at 1d6 for each time hit). As it needs to be able to affect any number of attacks I then thought perhaps using the enduring damage effect for evoke (thus Evoke Acid 10/Gen 1 for 1d6 damage lasting 10 minutes...the problem with this is that it almost doubles the "level" of the spell). The other thought that I had was that perhaps I could use Create Acid to crete an elemental weapon effect with discerning area of effect and short contingency (Create Acid 2/Gen 4) which is the right "level" but seems like a clunky if not outright incorrect way(particularly for contingency) to do it. Thoughts anyone?

In any case, is it reasonable to say that instead of needing to hit the target or giving a save for 1/2 damage (as would be normal for an evoke spell or weapon attacks), that it instead automatically damages things striking the target with non-magical weapons and gives a save for no damage to magical weapons (including creature attacks)?

 

[Kemrain]

Here's a question I'm not sure how to rule on for myself..

When you're level-drained as a Core Caster, you lose spell slots.. What happens to your MP in EoMr?

- Kemrain the Undead.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Possible Answers

Kemrain, I have two thoughts on that..
1: reduce the amount of MP the character regains during the next rest cycle {me being nice}
2: Immediately reduce the MP by the difference between levels {me not being nice and having to adjust during combat}

My initial preference is to #1, since there is less math during combat that way, and since I house rule that mages can burn hit points as MPs... losing a level, hitpoints, and MP all in one shot is really nasty.


Astriemer, I would go with the elemental weapon/contingency, but add in Evoke:Ice side effects to reduce the hardness of the weapon by 5 or 10. This will make the spell effect destroy most metal swords in 3 to 4 strikes, and a magical sword may be immune due to the higher hardness. I don't think it would need the discerning enhancment.

Ranger Wickett, no comment on my draft of the Wild element?

 

[RangerWickett]

Here's a question I'm not sure how to rule on for myself..

When you're level-drained as a Core Caster, you lose spell slots.. What happens to your MP in EoMr?

- Kemrain the Undead.

I would suggest you lose MP equal to your current caster level before applying the negative level. Thus, if your caster level is 12 and you get hit with 3 negative levels, you'd lose 12, then 11, then 10 MP. Thus, you'd lose 33 MP.

 

[RangerWickett]

Ranger Wickett, no comment on my draft of the Wild element?

Where is it? Please forgive me if I sometimes miss some things.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Wild Elements of Magic

Here is the original thread.. Elements of.. Wild Spellcraft?

 

[torem13]

Questions about divination, cantrips, and read magic

RangerWickett,

I have a question about using Divination. In the book it is stated
"You can choose to make a Divination check by just
expending a free cantrip, though you’ll gain no bonus to
your check."

But every type of question (Dowse simple, specific, creature, discerne lore, and history reading) as well as the three translates have MP of 1 or better. How do we use a cantrip to do a divination?

Also, If I have a spell, let's say Create Metal 0/Gen 3. Does this mean I need 3 MP plus a cantrip or just 3 MP.

Finally, Does divination allow a Mage the equivilent of read magic and how much would it cost?