Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer

[donm61873]

question about abjure/hex cantrips

If I understand the cantrips for abjures and hexes correctly, an appropriate cantrip can have ONE of the effects listed below.

Abjure {Alignment} 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against {alignment} attacks
+2 resistance bonus to saves against {alignment} attacks
Abjure {Creature} 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against {creature type} attacks
+2 resistance bonus to saves against {creature type} attacks
Abjure {Element} 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against {element} attacks
+2 resistance bonus to saves against {element} attacks
Energy resistance 1 against {element} attacks
Abjure Crystal 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against piercing attacks
Damage reduction 1 against piercing attacks
Abjure Earth 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against bludgeoning attacks
Damage reduction 1 against bludgeoning attacks
Abjure Force 0 Cantrips
+1 enhancement bonus to all saving throws
Abjure Metal 0 Cantrips
+2 deflection bonus to AC against slashing attacks
Damage reduction 1 against slashing attacks
Abjure Nature 0 Cantrips
+1 enhancement bonus to AC against all attacks

Hex {Alignment} 0 Cantrips
–2 deflection penalty to AC against {opposed alignment} attacks
–2 resistance penalty to saves against {opposed alignment} attacks
Damage reduction –1 against {opposed alignment} attacks
Hex {Element} 0 Cantrips
–2 deflection penalty to AC against {opposed elements} attacks
–2 resistance penalty to saves against {opposed elements} attacks
Energy resistance –1 against {opposed elements} attacks
Hex Force 0 Cantrips
–1 resistance penalty to all saves
–1 penalty to a creature’s Spell Resistance
Hex Nature 0 Cantrips
–1 penalty to AC against all attacks

This leads to a couple of questions...
1. Hedging (p. 32): The text implies this only works with a Cantrip effect, as opposed to an effect that costs MP.
2, Hex Nature 0 gives a “–1 penalty to AC against all attacks”, however, it would appear from Table 3.9 on page 33 that Hex Nature 1 gives a “–1 penalty to AC against all attacks”. Is there a reason Table 3.9 has a different progression than Table 3.3?

Thanks...

 

[Aristotle]

I'm not sure if anyone is monitoring this thread anymore or not, but I had a question. I'm modifying EoM for my campaign setting and was wondering what, if any, repurcussions might come from reorganizing the item creation feats. What I'm thinking about doing...

Wrapping wonderous item and permanent spell into one feat (now it handles creatures and objects), and making the 'spell-like ability' permanent effects work like the x/day effects from charged item instead of "at will". Also probably not using the "creature creation" rules from permanent spell, as it doesn't fit with the feal of the setting.

Taking mana batteries out of charged item, and having charged items only use charges (no x/day effects, as they are now handled by permanent spell). Also making "spell list" and "metamagic" items mandatory as 'spell completion' items. (Some of my players will avoid spell casting because of the complexity. I want to make sure the magic items their non-caster characters get are simple effects that don't require them to fully understand the magic system.)

Making mana batteries their own feat.

Hopefully you get some idea as to what I'm looking for. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[RangerWickett]

Wrapping wondrous item and permanent spell into one feat (now it handles creatures and objects), and making the 'spell-like ability' permanent effects work like the x/day effects from charged item instead of "at will". Also probably not using the "creature creation" rules from permanent spell, as it doesn't fit with the feal of the setting.

So how many feats total will you have, and what will they be? Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Charged Item, and what? I'm not quite clear on what you'll be doing.

I have considered whether it might have been better to make five feats instead of just three:

Craft Spell Trigger Item, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Permanent Spell, and Craft Creature.

Generally, removing options won't break the system, especially if you're just doing it to simplify things. But if you were to consolidate several effects into one feat, it might be a bit too powerful.

 

[Aristotle]

Generally, removing options won't break the system, especially if you're just doing it to simplify things. But if you were to consolidate several effects into one feat, it might be a bit too powerful.

Right now the plan is 3. One that basically combines Wonderous Item and Permanent Spell with a few tweaks (and possibly an increase in some costs). One that is basically Charged Item (but everything is charged, there are no x/day items in it). And one that focuses on creating the mana batteries (I couldn't tell if there was a reason that they had to be part of charged item or not, but they seem like they would be plenty useful on their own).

Although you might be right. I may have overloaded my feat that combines wonderous item and permanent spell. Although I honestly think the charged item feat would be just about as popular (a little less power maybe, but less expensive to make too). I'll have to give it some more thought, and maybe give your '5 creation feats' idea some thought too.

Thanks!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Creation Feats...

I have been looking over these feats as well, wondering what to do.
One thing I was looking at are the necromantic 'creation' spells. These could be emulated in the system by a permanent summon undead, but I did not want my bad guys to wait until 7th level before being able to cast a 2 mp 'Create Zombie' spell....
So a feat of Necromancy will be in my game, proabably at first level.

This has led me down the road of other potentials, and since I am working on intergrating with the Eberron setting, I have to find a way to work in Artificers.

Anyway.. all this to basically say.. I will provide input on any feat alteration deal, cause right now I am well and truely stuck on how to balance/change them

 

[Kemrain]

Having read the Fire Cantrips thread, I've been looking at the Create lists. I'm liking what I see, and came up with this bit of broken nastyness. Tell me, please, if this spell works the way I think it does:

Dancing Shadowshawl
Create Shadow 1/Create Ooze 3/Move Force 1/Gen1
Total MP: 6
Range: 30 ft.
Area of Effect: 20 ft. radius
Duration: One minute

This spell should create a 20 ft. radius sphere of Gloom (I want to see through it with darkvision) that is Semi-Solid, not only blinding most creatures within the area of effect with no save but slowing their movement down to 5 ft. per round, imposing a -2 penalty to melee attack and damage rolls, and making all non-energy-based ranged attacks impossible. On top of that the sphere of gloom can be moved, by mental command, by the caster, upto 30 ft. in any unblocked direction, including straight up.

This is a killer spell, making my opponents lose their dex bonus, take a net -6 to hit, slows them better than a 4MP Move Death spell, and can be lifted and moved at will. I can move the spell at a base speed of 30 ft., but does this mean that moving it in such a manner is a move action?

Also, just wondering, if I moved the spell effect forward at my walking speed, I can't use the motion of the semi-solid to overcome the 5 ft. restriction, can I? I'm gonna say "I doubt it," but the thought popped into my twisted little mind and I just had to ask.

- Kemrain the Semi-Solid Snake.

 

[RangerWickett]

Having read the Fire Cantrips thread, I've been looking at the Create lists. I'm liking what I see, and came up with this bit of broken nastyness. Tell me, please, if this spell works the way I think it does:

It doesn't, thankfully.

Dancing Shadowshawl
Create Shadow 1/Create Ooze 3/Move Force 1/Gen1
Total MP: 6
Range: 30 ft.
Area of Effect: 20 ft. radius
Duration: One minute

This spell should create a 20 ft. radius sphere of Gloom (I want to see through it with darkvision) that is Semi-Solid,

First things first, you didn't buy an area of effect, so you have an object made of semi-solid shadow, which radiates gloom in a 20-ft. radius. The radiation is not solid.

Second, the intention of the rules is that you cannot create solid (or semi-solid) objects around creatures. I suppose it should be errata'd that you can't create solid objects in the same square as a creature, though you can still cover them with liquid, or surround them with energy. I would say, though, that ooze counts as solid in this case, albeit a jiggly one.

Third, though you're not actually wrong in doing so, I never intended for people to use Create Ooze to make energy semi-solid. I was thinking, "Hey, a trick wall that people can walk through," or actually, "Hey, solid fog is a great tactical spell (Create Mist 1/Create Ooze 3/Gen 4)," not "Jell-O Lightning." It'd be up to the GM to adjudicate whether oozy fire still burns, or if it's even possible (I personally would say yes, because I like weird stuff like that).

Fourth, for this to work, you'd actually need to buy the Elemental Object enhancement, since you are creating an object out of shadow, and then you'd apply Create Ooze. You still can't trap someone, but you could put a ring around them that it would take a long time for them to get through, while you could be zapping them with spells. It'd be 4 more MP to buy the Elemental Object enhancement, though.

not only blinding most creatures within the area of effect with no save but slowing their movement down to 5 ft. per round, imposing a -2 penalty to melee attack and damage rolls, and making all non-energy-based ranged attacks impossible. On top of that the sphere of gloom can be moved, by mental command, by the caster, upto 30 ft. in any unblocked direction, including straight up.

Move Force lets you move intangible spell effects with ease, but for created objects, you actually have to move the item's weight. I couldn't hazard a guess as to how much Jell-O Shadow weighs, but a 20-ft. radius is about the same as a Gargantuan creature, so you'd need 6 MP to move it, not 1.

This is a killer spell, making my opponents lose their dex bonus, take a net -6 to hit, slows them better than a 4MP Move Death spell, and can be lifted and moved at will. I can move the spell at a base speed of 30 ft., but does this mean that moving it in such a manner is a move action?

Directing a Move spell requires concentration (a standard action). And yes, your spell can do what you want, but it can't trap them completely, and it costs 12 MP. Assuming you're cool with just a 10-ft. radius (much cheaper), you have Create Shadow 3/Create Ooze 3/Move Force 4/Gen 2.

This actually is not optimal, since you'd be better off creating a cage of pure force (Create Force 9/Gen 2 for a 30-ft. range, 10-ft. diameter cage of indestructible force). Nice idea, though.

- Kemrain the Semi-Solid Snake.

Snake? I thought you were dead.

 

[torem13]

Bump

RangerWickett,

I have a question about using Divination. In the book it is stated
"You can choose to make a Divination check by just
expending a free cantrip, though you’ll gain no bonus to
your check."

But every type of question (Dowse simple, specific, creature, discerne lore, and history reading) as well as the three translates have MP of 1 or better. How do we use a cantrip to do a divination?

Also, If I have a spell, let's say Create Metal 0/Gen 3. Does this mean I need 3 MP plus a cantrip or just 3 MP.

Finally, Does divination allow a Mage the equivilent of read magic and how much would it cost?

 

[RangerWickett]

RangerWickett,

I have a question about using Divination. In the book it is stated
"You can choose to make a Divination check by just
expending a free cantrip, though you’ll gain no bonus to
your check."

But every type of question (Dowse simple, specific, creature, discerne lore, and history reading) as well as the three translates have MP of 1 or better. How do we use a cantrip to do a divination?

Dang it. Well, I intended to make there be an option to work like the psionic power inkling. 0 MP would let you ask a question about your own immediate future (1 hour) or near past (1 day), and I'd rule that if you want to History Read yourself, the base cost should be 0 MP. The base DC would be 10.

Also, If I have a spell, let's say Create Metal 0/Gen 3. Does this mean I need 3 MP plus a cantrip or just 3 MP.

You only need to spend a cantrip if the total spell cost is 0 MP. If the spell costs more than 0 MP, it's no longer a cantrip.

Finally, Does divination allow a Mage the equivilent of read magic and how much would it cost?

The EOM rules don't assume that magical writings are inherently hard to read, or that they're in some sort of arcane script, so magical deciphering is unnecessary. If you want to have magic work that way in your world, though, I'd just suggest reading magic is a cantrip that all mages know.

 

[Kemrain]

Glad I asked my question then.. Learned a lot about your rules intentions. I have some more questions.

Charm spells with moderate and major efects are reduced a step on a successful save, not negated. My GM saw this and flipped out, especially when he saw Fear and Daze effects. I pointed out that you usually get a save every round, but he argued that you should only "save for half" against numeric affects, and that you should never be better off failing a save than making it: when 'held' you can take purely mental actions but when 'dazed' you can take no actions, and that seems to be a downgrade. (I realise that changing daze's definition would make half his argument moot, but...)

I'd be grateful if you'd explain what you were intending for the Charm lists, and why they work this way (a way I don't think I've ever seen used in d20). My GM thinks we need to modify the list for our game, and knowing why you designed them the way you did could be useful in deciding how we should rule this.

- Kemrain the Appreciative in Advance.

Oh, and, if you'll note a few posts above, I'm not dead but, UNdead.

- Kemrain the Fiendish Vampiric Ooze Snake.

Hope no one else asked this question already.. I'd feel awfully dim...

- Kemrain the Created Gloom.