Elf Cloak and Boots = weak?

[Kai Lord]

I think the change from 2nd edition to third was a much bigger change then from 3rd to 3.5 I understand your not being happy over the change, but the change was a few years ago.

Good point. My group had been playing with the 3.0 Cloak as giving the bonus to Hide, but also having it go beyond the Hide Skill and effectively act as near-invisibility that was "always on," to match the way it worked in 1E/2E.

The +10 to Hide was just the mechanic used to see if anyone spotted you, whether or not you were using the Hide skill per se.

The reduction to a non-stackable +5 now barely gives it an advantage even if used according to the core rules.

EDIT: And I think you might want your title to read "World's Worst Lurker" Croth.

 

[Crothian]

EDIT: And I think you might want your title to read "World's Worst Lurker" Croth.

I blame PC, he typed it in.

 

[jgsugden]

Almost no advantage?

A third level rogue with 6 ranks in hide, an elven cloak and a dexterity of 16 has a hide skill of 14. Most of his enemies (orcs, ogres, etc ...) will have a spot skill of 4 or less. Versus spot 4, it gives him an 88.75% chance of being undetected. Without that +5 bonus, that odd drops to 73.75%. It goes from about 1 in 9 chance of being caught to worse than a 1 in 4 chance of being caught.

The old version was too strong. It turned anybody into a competent stealth figure. Now, it turns anybody into an adequate stealth figure and turns experienced stealthy characters into something to worry about. That seems just right to me.

 

[Piratecat]

I blame PC, he typed it in.

Nope, it wasn't me -- was it?

In any case, I'll go fix it. Oops.

 

[Crothian]

Nope, it wasn't me -- was it?

In any case, I'll go fix it. Oops.

Thanks!! Actually, it was my error, I typed it wrong when I sent it to you. You must have just copy and pasted what I typed.

 

[The Souljourner]

Am I happy that a Cloak of Elvenkind that gives the same effect the item has given for over 20 years is no longer core? No. I'm not.

Ahh, so you of course mean

The invisibility bestowed is:

[COLOR=silver][i]Outdoors, Natural Surroundings[/i]
   heavy growth         100%
   light growth          99%
   open fields           95%
   rocky terrain         98%[/COLOR]

Etcetera... because that's what it did in 3.0, right?

Oh wait, no, that's nothing like what it did in 3.0.

3.0 changed hide and move silently from flat percentages to opposed rolls (much better, IMO). And, +5 is a big jump even for mid level characters.

Now, I'll grant you that it's not the same as a cloak of invisibility anymore, but keep in mind that the ones from tolkien were worn by halflings, who probably already had at least a +10 hide check, if not more.

-The Souljourner

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

1. Introduce greater, improved and epic versions of the cloak and boots.

2. Change the nature of the bonus, the cloak now gives the user Hide in Plain Sight with a +3 Hide bonus (i.e. the Two Towers effect).

3. Go old school (aka the Harry Potter approach). The user of the cloak is under an improved invisibility spell. If too powerful make a lesser version which grants only normal invisilibity (blown after the first attack).

4. Seriously limit the item to only elves. If "every rogue" wants it (not my experience but YMMV) then make them pay for it in setting specific rules. In lit, these cloaks are gifts from high elven nobility - they are not found in a treasure chest.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

4. Seriously limit the item to only elves. If "every rogue" wants it (not my experience but YMMV) then make them pay for it in setting specific rules. In lit, these cloaks are gifts from high elven nobility - they are not found in a treasure chest.

Good idea -- at least then there would be a good use for the half-elves' elven blood. Maybe the cloaks give +5 Hide to everyone, but confer invisibility to those with elven blood.