[ELH] Permanent Gate to Far Realms

[gfunk]

Let's say I was trying to open a permanent gate to the Far Realms. My DM has ruled that this requires an Epic Spell b/c the 9th level spell Gate is insufficient on its own.

However, looking at the ELH rules for Epic Spells I have no idea which seed to use. Transport?

If anyone could provide any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

P.S. Yes, I am trying to end the campaign world as we know it.

P.S.2. I have many spellcasting minions so I want to make this baby a Ritual spell to reduce the DC.

<added>
I have 21 arcane spellcasting levels and a Spellcraft of around +27 or so.

 

[AuraSeer]

For a permanent effect, I'd craft it as a magic item. That would make it harder to dispel, and you wouldn't have to pay epic research costs for a one-use spell.

In fact, you could probably use the Craft Portal feat from FRCS.

 

[Tiberius]

I'm not sure using Craft Portal would work, since it requires Gate to create one, and Gate has been ruled to be insufficent for his needs.

I'd suggest using the Transport and Transform seeds. Transport to go to the other plane, and Transform to turn an object into a portal. While this is a wee bit outside the description of the Transform seed (which seems to be more polymorph-inclined), it is the closest seed. That would put the DC at 27 (Transport) + 21 (Transform) + 4 (extraplanar Transport), multiplying the whole thing by 5 for permanancy, yielding a total of 260 before mitigating factors. How big are your ritual casters?

-Tiberius

 

[PowerWordDumb]

Well, "Gate" is insufficient on its own as a solution in that it can't accomplish the permanency... I see nothing as yet to indicate it's unsuitable as the seed concept for a magic item. if it's otherwise fine with his DM, then the suggested Craft Portal is likely the way to go.

It all depends on exactly *why* Gate itself is considered insufficient.

 

[AuraSeer]

I'm not sure using Craft Portal would work, since it requires Gate to create one, and Gate has been ruled to be insufficent for his needs.

That's not really relevant. Just because a magic item needs a certain spell in its creation, that doesn't imply that it duplicates that spell exactly.

Creating Daern's instant fortress requires Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, even though MMM by itself cannot create a 30-foot adamantine tower.

 

[Tiberius]

That's not really relevant. Just because a magic item needs a certain spell in its creation, that doesn't imply that it duplicates that spell exactly.

Creating Daern's instant fortress requires Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, even though MMM by itself cannot create a 30-foot adamantine tower.

I'm familiar with this principle and agree with it in general, but I think an exception would be made here. One of Gate's functions is creating an interplanar link for bodily transport without making use of intermediate planes. Gate has been ruled to be insufficent for some reason which has not yet been made clear. A portal functions in a manner very similar to Gate (creating a planar or interplanar link for the purposes of bodily transport without using intermediate planes). I would say that while technically the portal need not function exactly like the spell used in its creation, the fact that a more powerful spell has been ruled to be needed to accomplish the effect would render the Craft Portal feat unusable for this purpose.

The magic item is still a good idea. Perhaps it lies in the domain of Craft Epic Wonderous Item, or the creation a new Craft Epic Portal feat?

-Tiberius

 

[PowerWordDumb]

Well said, Tiberius.

I think ultimately, further speculation is useless until the reason for Gate's being declared insufficient is known.

Gate insufficient its own? Clearly so, as it cannot accomplish the permanency required (at least not without further spells).

Gate insufficient as the spell seed for an item? This is not clear - it depends on the DM's rationale in the first place. His ruling may only apply to the independent spell, and not to magic items crafted with it. He may have another method in mind, or he may simply be ruling it cannot be accomplished by "mere" mortals short of an Epic spell, whether for story reasons or personal reasons.

 

[gfunk]

Sorry to keep you guys in the dark.

Gate itself cannot open an interplanar channel to the Far Realms at all. In the MotP it is stated that the Far Realms is a plane "beyond space and time." MotP talks, in broad terms, about ways to get there including the center of the Plane of Dreams or the beginning (or end) of time.

IMC, an epic spell is the only thing that would be able to do the trick. Now that I think about it some more, perhaps a modified variant of the Dreamwalk spell in the ELH?

Rather than try a direct way to get to the Far Realms, perhaps an indirect way would be more feasible.