D&D General Eliminating the whiff factor

[Oofta]

Put me down as not seeing how this is an improvement. I guess I'd have to see actual rules and try it.

But misses are what makes the hits feel rewarding for me.

 

[Charlaquin]

Just the same as every time you roll a to-hit die: something happens.

Even if that something doesn't take as long as does a baseball at-bat, and even if that something is disappointing to you, the roller, something happens.

I mean I agree, but clearly @overgeeked doesn’t. They want something in the combat to materially change (as it does in baseball whenever a pitch is thrown, unless the batter hits a foul ball when they already have two strikes). And I think that’s a perfectly reasonable desire. If you don’t, that’s fine, but just saying so doesn’t contribute anything of value to the conversation.

 

[J.Quondam]

Nothing happening in a D&D combat round is dull. Nothing happens when you miss. It’s disappointing because nothing happens.

But "nothing" doesn't happen in a combat round just because an attack misses, does it? The character also has movement, bonus actions, object interactions, and reactions, not to mention the PCs' own additional attacks, eventually; and can be affected by others' readied actions, etc.

 

[Charlaquin]

Put me down as not seeing how this is an improvement. I guess I'd have to see actual rules and try it.

But misses are what makes the hots feel rewarding for me.

People keep making this mistake. The proposal isn’t “get rid of misses,” it’s “make something happen on a miss.” Maybe the attacker takes damage, maybe the defender gets to move 5ft without provoking an opportunity attack, but something.

Perhaps a better way to summarize what’s being suggested here would be “make every fail a critical fail.”

 

[Charlaquin]

But "nothing" doesn't happen in a combat round just because an attack misses, does it? The character also has movement, bonus actions, object interactions, and reactions, not to mention the PCs' own additional attacks, eventually; and can be affected by others' readied actions, etc.

I believe you’re missing the point here. Yes, something may have happened on the turn, but the attack did not result in any meaningful change to the situation.

 

[overgeeked]

Put me down as not seeing how this is an improvement. I guess I'd have to see actual rules and try it.

But misses are what makes the hits feel rewarding for me.

Something as simple as:

Counterattack. When you are the target of an attack that misses, you deal 5 damage per tier to your attacker. Describe the attack in any way that makes sense for the situation.

Then give that to everyone.

 

[Oofta]

People keep making this mistake. The proposal isn’t “get rid of misses,” it’s “make something happen on a miss.” Maybe the attacker takes damage, maybe the defender gets to move 5ft without provoking an opportunity attack, but something.

Perhaps a better way to summarize what’s being suggested here would be “make every fail a critical fail.”

Poe-tae-toe poe-tah-toe. I understand the basic proposal. Im just saying I'd have to see real rules in play because I don't think it would add enough to justify the added complexity.

 

[Oofta]

Something as simple as:

Counterattack. When you are the target of an attack that misses, you deal 5 damage per tier to your attacker. Describe the attack in any way that makes sense for the situation.

Then give that to everyone.

Which would just be odd against people attacking from range. In addition there would have to be some level adjustment because 5HP at low levels is a big deal while minor at high. Also affects anyone doing multiattack more than single. Has no effect on saving throws and so on.

 

[overgeeked]

Which would just be odd against people attacking from range.

Why? The target likely has ranged attacks as well. You shoot an arrow, throw a dagger, cast a spell at range and I counter with an arrow, dagger, or spell at range.

In addition there would have to be some level adjustment because 5HP at low levels is a big deal while minor at high.

Sure. It’s the first draft of a random thought.

Also affects anyone doing multiattack more than single. Has no effect on saving throws and so on.

So add verbiage to cover those as well.

 

[Oofta]

Why? The target likely has ranged attacks as well. You shoot and arrow, throw a dagger, cast a spell at range and I founter with an arrow, dagger, or spell at range.

Sure. It’s the first draft of a random thought.

So add verbiage to cover those as well.

Just pointing out things to consider.

In any case I'll go back to lurking. It's interesting in concept, but the devil is in the details.