Elite minions

[LordArchaon]

I will SURELY apply templates to minions if it's viable.
What about an army of lich-artillery skeleton minions throwing bolts of dark energy?? And you say that I can't make lich skeletons? Look at the template excerpt...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don't know the effect of using much higher monsters, but wouldn't a fourth level minion be worth 50xp?

psst^^

maybe they are more apropriate, when beeing shot by 40 HPs of damage and at 4th level...

actually they also get about +4 attack, +4 defense and +4 damage... this would be about the same kind of threat, but maybe you won´t have an apropriate minion of the same type as your monster...

and maybe its simpler to give the elite soldier template to my minion than to apply +4 defense and attack/damage...

 

[Enoch]

Actually I think it will be quite possible to do 40 points of damage at first level. I suppose it doesn't matter, because the player won't know it's a minion. In fact he might think it's an elite soldier and not an elite minion.

-Joshua

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Makes them think about twice using dailies at first sight

two well placed at will be much better invested

the more i think about it, the more i like my own idea^^

 

[KidSnide]

What about using the elite template on a minion?

There is certainly room in the game for a creature that is half the power of a standard creature, although I would give such a creature hit points since daily powers and criticals should probably one-shot kill the monster.

The question is whether or not such creatures are fun to fight. If the PCs are intended to cut a swath through these creatures, why not use real minions? If you want a decent fight, why not use standard creatures?

I could imagine tough-minions might be fun as a brute / lurker flanking threat, or as artillery that is easy to take out, but only if the PCs really concentrate fire. Such creatures might also be useful as PC allies. A creature that typically requires two hits to take down would be useful as a rear guard, but wouldn't be the type of ally that could take the focus away from the PCs.

 

[Alkiera]

I agree with hong and KidSnide... I'm trying to figure out where this monster fits.

Minions are intended to be dangerous in numbers, but the PCs should cut through them quickly, not ignore them. Elites are intended to bring a significant challenge to the party on the whole, and Solo's even moreso.

The hole for 'not a mook' and 'not major threat' already has a filler... the standard monster. Level 1 kobold has ~20-25 hp. Average damage from PCs basic/at-will attacks, call it 8. That's ~3 hits from a PC, less than a full round of focused fire from a party. The 'tough minion' is the standard monster. Stat-wise they are practically identical, they just have more hp, and do slightly more damage... Both of which seem to be goals of your 'elite minion'.

Now, if for story reasons, you want the players to mow down dozens of lich minions... I dunno what to say. Liches are supposed to be a threat; they don't really make sense as minions. Minions of liches should be lesser undead, skeletons, zombies, and the like.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I´ll keep it short:

What about using the elite template on a minion?

Minion gains all benefits of an elite monster (+2 attack, damage and defense, an action point maybe)
xp = half that of an equal level normal monster.
First hit bloodies, second hit kills

Does it sound interesting?

You forgot Elite templates gives extra nifty ability (like xtra attack, etc). And +2 saves. Double life.

Lets apply to our friendly neighborhood spider... I mean Vampire Spawn:
Vampire Spawn Level 6 Elite Minion (Brute)
Medium Natural Humanoid (Undead) XP 140. Initiative +11
Senses Darkvision; Perception +4. Action Point: 1.
HP 20/10 AC 20; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 17. Saves +2.
Immune poison; Resist 10 necrotic; Vulnerable 5 radiant. Speed 7.
Claw (standard; at-will) +11 vs. AC; 3 (5 to Bloodied), and target dazed (save end) with -2 penalty to save if bloodied.
Group Attack +3 damage per additional vampire spawn (+5 to Bloodied)
Regenerate 3. Skills: Stealth +11.
Str 14 (+5) Dex 16 (+6) Con 14 (+5) Wis 12 (+4) Int 10 (+3) Cha 14 (+5)

I added: more life, +2 AC/Defenses, +2 save, claw can daze now, and worth more (double Xp value).

 

[LordArchaon]

You forgot Elite templates gives extra nifty ability (like xtra attack, etc). And +2 saves. Double life.

Lets apply to our friendly neighborhood spider... I mean Vampire Spawn:
Vampire Spawn Level 6 Elite Minion (Brute)
Medium Natural Humanoid (Undead) XP 140. Initiative +11
Senses Darkvision; Perception +4. Action Point: 1.
HP 20/10 AC 20; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 17. Saves +2.
Immune poison; Resist 10 necrotic; Vulnerable 5 radiant. Speed 7.
Claw (standard; at-will) +11 vs. AC; 3 (5 to Bloodied), and target dazed (save end) with -2 penalty to save if bloodied.
Group Attack +3 damage per additional vampire spawn (+5 to Bloodied)
Regenerate 3. Skills: Stealth +11.
Str 14 (+5) Dex 16 (+6) Con 14 (+5) Wis 12 (+4) Int 10 (+3) Cha 14 (+5)

I added: more life, +2 AC/Defenses, +2 save, claw can daze now, and worth more (double Xp value).

Now we just have to compare it to a 6th level standard creature. But from what I see, the math works: we have half a standard creature. It's still killable more or less with one-two at-will attacks. It's a good niche. Of course, a right challenge would be no more and no less than 12-13 of these against the 5 people party.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

nice, i didn´t check the math...

still i would stay with 2 hits to kill... (especially if i see a tendancy of spamming dailies before enounter powers)

 

[That One Guy]

So, I was thinking about threshold damage minions. They go down when hit by an attack that does >=x damage. So by these zany and fun rules, a Vampire spawn minion (are those stats from the minis?) would have to take 10 or more damage in a single hit to go down.