• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Elrond in the LotR movie...

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Elrond has been seriously misrepresented in the LotR films, even moreso if you have read the Simarillion.

Elrond's last name is Half-elven. This is because Elrond is a Half-elf, the offspring of a human and an elf. Elrond's father is Earendil the mariner, a human male, and Elrond's mother is Elwing, an elven female.

Elrond has a brother who chose to live a mortal life and die as a man. This choice is given to all the offspring of a union between a human and an elf.

Elrond chose to follow his elven heritage and be immortal. This was a conscious choice made by Elrond many thousands of years ago.

Now, what troubles me about Elrond is that his character is poorly developed and no one seems to have noticed quite a few of the following things from the book:

1. Elrond raised Aragorn as a son. He does not doubt Aragorn is the one who will unite men and lead them to defeat the dark power of Mordor. In fact, Elrond has foreseen that Aragorn will do this.

2. Elrond is not prejudice against humans. In fact, Elrond's father is human. He would never make such general statements about human beings considering his heritage. This is strongly misrepresented in the film.

3. Elrond would not try to keep Arwen from staying with Aragorn. Elrond told Aragorn many years before that he could not marry Arwen until he had fulfilled his destiny.

Aragorn strongly desires to fulfill his destiny, not only to live up the greatness of his forefathers and save Middle Earth, but to marry Arwen as per Elrond's decree. Elrond has known about this for 40 plus years.

(Don't even get me started at how badly they have butchered Aragorn's character.)

4. Elrond did not leave during the battle against Sauron. Elrond never would have left while Sauron endured. Elrond loves Middle Earth and would stay to defend it until he was dead. He would not be preparing to leave Middle Earth while it was still in danger.


There are probably other ways they have butchered the character, but those are the ones that are foremost in my mind.

I can understand the need for changes, so I just overlook them because it is an entertaining movie. The butchery of Elrond's character is overlooked by many readers of LotR because his background is discussed more in The Simarillion and in the appendices to LotR. Not many people are particularly knowledgable about Elrond and his history in Middle Earth.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Bhaal

First Post
A lot of the "Mr. Anderson" leaked through in his character, I think. There weren't a lot of elves in the movie, and PJ had to show somehow that elves were losing much confidence in humans. A lot of the characters are vehicles for sentiments/stories that aren't exactly their own, but it's kind of necessary to try and fit as much of the book as possible into 3 movies.

Also, beware the agent:

hugo.jpg
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Celtavian said:
Elrond has been seriously misrepresented in the LotR films, even moreso if you have read the Simarillion.

All valid points about how Elrond has changed, and all irrelevant to the movie, IMHO. Elrond has to carry the weight of a great deal of information already for the uninformed viewer, representing, as he does, the voice of the elves and bearing a great deal of exposition. The viewing audience is ignorant of all these facts about Elrond, and would benefit little from knowing them. Elrond has to wear multiple hats in the movie, to show several key points, not just say them. This changes the character, as you point out, but the movie needs to condense to be approachable.

Most of your points reference information not in the movie, and in some cases, not in the books. Nowhere in the LotR is Elrond's lineage more than hinted at, and it's not really that necessary to the core story. LotR has far too many characters to protray each as faithfully as possible. Elrond is, for better or worse, a minor character in the story. Important, but minor (as opposed to, say Erkenbrand, who is minor AND unimportant).


Aragorn strongly desires to fulfill his destiny, not only to live up the greatness of his forefathers and save Middle Earth, but to marry Arwen as per Elrond's decree. Elrond has known about this for 40 plus years.


Well, I certainly didn't get that from my recent re-reading of FotR and TTT. This may have been more clarified in the appendicies, perhaps, but it's nowhere in the main text...and it's not nearly as interesting on film.

4. Elrond did not leave during the battle against Sauron. Elrond never would have left while Sauron endured. Elrond loves Middle Earth and would stay to defend it until he was dead. He would not be preparing to leave Middle Earth while it was still in danger.


The movie doesn't have him leaving, but sending others on ahead. They've been showing elves leaving in both movies, to reinforce the idea, in preparation for RotK, rather than appearing to pull it from thin air in the last movie. Elrond standing and staring at the mural with Narsil was fairly telling, IMHO.


The butchery of Elrond's character is overlooked by many readers of LotR because his background is discussed more in The Simarillion and in the appendices to LotR. Not many people are particularly knowledgable about Elrond and his history in Middle Earth.

But I guess my question is, do they need to be? Does adding these elements enhance the movie, or detract from it? I agree that Elrond of the books is different from Elrond of the movies...but the movie Elrond is used to deliver a great deal of things that the book Elrond doesn't have to, as there are dozens of other elves to do it for him. That he is used to generate dramatic tension and a build-up for the Arwen/Aragorn romance is important to the story, unfaithful to his book nature as it may be.
 

Assenpfeffer

First Post
Celtavian said:
4. Elrond did not leave during the battle against Sauron. Elrond never would have left while Sauron endured. Elrond loves Middle Earth and would stay to defend it until he was dead. He would not be preparing to leave Middle Earth while it was still in danger.

I think I'll go though the appendix again before commenting specifically on your other points, but they are all correct to a greater or lesser extent. I suspect we might differ on whether any of those changes are important or not.

However, there is no indication whatever that Elrond is himself about to leave in the movie, at least any sooner than after the War is resolved. Many of his people are departing, but this is right in line with the book.
 

Claude Raines

First Post
Celtavian said:

Elrond's last name is Half-elven. This is because Elrond is a Half-elf, the offspring of a human and an elf. Elrond's father is Earendil the mariner, a human male, and Elrond's mother is Elwing, an elven female.

EEK! This is definitely a somewhat wrong statement. Both Earendil and Elwing are considered Half-elves. Earendil is the son of Tour (Human) and Idril (Noldor Elf).

Elwing is half-elf also and counted among the elves. Actually, she is the daughter of Dior and Nimloth. Dior was the son of Beren (Human) and Luthien (half-elf/half-Maia). Nimloth was pure Sindarian. So Elwing is 5/8ths Sindar, 1/4 human, and 1/8 Maia. This makes Elrond and Elros 1/4 Noldor, 3/8 human, 5/16 Sindar, and 1/16 Maia. They were given the choice to be counted as humans or elves (i.e. whether or not they could live forever in Aman or pass from the world forever). Elros chose human and Elrond chose elven.
 

Assenpfeffer

First Post
Re: Re: Elrond in the LotR movie...

Claude Raines said:
Elwing is half-elf also and counted among the elves. Actually, she is the daughter of Dior and Nimloth. Dior was the son of Beren (Human) and Luthien (half-elf/half-Maia). Nimloth was pure Sindarian. So Elwing is 5/8ths Sindar, 1/4 human, and 1/8 Maia. This makes Elrond and Elros 1/4 Noldor, 3/8 human, 5/16 Sindar, and 1/16 Maia. They were given the choice to be counted as humans or elves (i.e. whether or not they could live forever in Aman or pass from the world forever). Elros chose human and Elrond chose elven.

That's a mighty big geek muscle ya got there, buddy. ;)
 

Squire James

First Post
Peter Jackson had to make certain decisions in the movie about how much to say and how much to stay quiet about, and he's certainly made a few I don't agree with. All in all, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and just watch the damn movies!

No romantic story works without conflict of some sort, and Elrond seems the natural source of it. Part of it is a sucker play, because I think Elrond is mostly testing Arwen's resolve and making sure she's not making the decision lightly. Whether that plays out in the movie or not remains to be seen.

The Extended FoTR DVD seems to suggest that Elrond and Galadriel will NOT meet the mostly-reunited Fellowship in Gondor as they do in the books. That's a shame, because that's another huge chunk at the end missing. Now I can see why they left out 6-7 chapters of TTT in the movie, because the movie's only really going to cover 6-7 chapters of RotK! I guess he can still play us as suckers and have Elrond meet them in Gondor, and Galadriel meet them after Aragorn goes back to rule Gondor...
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Squire James said:
...I think Elrond is mostly testing Arwen's resolve and making sure she's not making the decision lightly.

Quite possible. And remember that, for an elf, thinking about it for 40 years might be considered "lightly". A mortal lifetime isn't long compared with all eternity.
 

jdavis

First Post
Yes movies and books differ, that is a general blanket statement, they are different. A big thing to remember is that not everybody has read LOTR, and nobody will ever make a movie out of the textbook like Silmarillian (which is one of my favorite books ever). They had to do things different and they could of done things much worse. They have only so much time to get the story across and they didn't want to make any confusing references that only people who have read the Silmarillian would get. The movie was made in a way that people who didn't read the book could still enjoy it. There is one huge glaring Elrond mistake I dislike and that is the scene with Galadriel asking Elrond if the elves should help the Humans. Like Galadriel would need to ask permission of Elrond for anything. I posted in another thread that I overheard a person talking about how Elrond was king of the Elves and that just ran all over me, They gave the wrong impression with that scene.
 

Sulimo

First Post
Celtavian said:
(Don't even get me started at how badly they have butchered Aragorn's character.)


Yeah. Aside from how some scenes were filmed, the butchering of Aragorn and the Dunedain of the North is the thing the bugged me the most.

Elrond did really bug me too...that whole scene with Gandalf in Rivendell. And TTT hasn't made it any better.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top