Ema's RPG Sheet Website down...

[Umbran]

But, you are welcome back when you have read up on the law.

Dude, you do not have the authority to tell folks here whether or not they may speak.

You are free to ignore others or not, as you choose. But, if you speak to them, we expect and require you to treat them and their opinions with respect.

Anyone who cannot do that will be welcome back when they have read up on The Rules, and can abide by them.

 

[Jack99]

SSo, perhaps we can start to consider those people who err on the side of permissiveness as NOT being thieves and have a rational conversation, hmm?

I agree that calling Ema a thief is a little harsh. None the less, I still think (based on what was on his website and what others have reported) that what he did was illegal and that WotC was well within their rights to shut him down.

I mean, I fail to see how a C&D letter and shutting down his website is seen as harsh. While I am no law expert, I am pretty sure WotC could have done much worse, if they wished to do so, while still sending out the message that this kind of erring on the side of permissiveness will not be tolerated.

 

[Khairn]

The moment Ema started earning money based on what belongs to WotC, his site stopped being a fansite. As it is, ENworld is not a business. EN Publishing is.

I was able to download Ema's version of the 4E character sheets for free. Ema's asked for for money for the ability to store your character data on his site and to pay for its upkeep. The product itself (character sheets) was available for free.

EN World has a Wiki and other services that provide information on WotC's IP, some taken straight from the PHB, others being interpretations made by fans like Ema. EN offer's that information for free but request that you contribute to the upkeep of the site by becoming a community suporter. Both sites request money (optional) to help in the payment of the site.

Given the arguements many posters are making about WotC's rights, if WotC views Ema's site as an infringement of their IP what's to stop them from sending a C&D to Morrus to shut down EN World?

I'd love to think its just Morrus and Eric's bubbly personality, but I doubt that's enough for WotC.

 

[Psion]

Ema's asked for for money for the ability to store your character data on her site and to pay for its upkeep.

HIS site

Given the arguements many posters are making about WotC's rights, if WotC views Ema's site as an infringement of their IP what's to stop them from sending a C&D to Morrus to shut down EN World?

That's why this event has those of who were around for the TSR/Rob Repp fracas are just a bit spooked by this. TSR was well within their rights then. But they were also, IMHO, not so wise in their course of action.

 

[Mirtek]

The more I see, the more convinced I am that the OGL is the only way to go for gaming. NO issues whatsoever so long as you stay away from everything Wot¢ cosniders IP and closed.

Wasn't ema also far beyond the OGL as far as the offered 3.x content was concerned? I heard he was offering not only from the SRD and other OGL sources but also from the various 3.x splatbooks and campaign settings.

 

[Khairn]

HIS site

DOH!

And I even knew that before I wrote that. Thanks for the correction.

That's why this event has those of who were around for the TSR/Rob Repp fracas are just a bit spooked by this. TSR was well within their rights then. But they were also, IMHO, not so wise in their course of action.

Agreed. I was there and remember it well. Given WotC's approach to the GSL, its a very valid concern.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Wasn't ema also far beyond the OGL as far as the offered 3.x content was concerned? I heard he was offering not only from the SRD and other OGL sources but also from the various 3.x splatbooks and campaign settings.

Not in its entirety, but the character sheets could include the spell lists (including short description of the spells, i.e. level, range, components and o on plus very short summary) for about every spell that ever appeared in WotC books.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Jack99]

I was able to download Ema's version of the 4E character sheets for free. Ema's asked for for money for the ability to store your character data on her site and to pay for its upkeep. The product itself (character sheets) was available for free.

EN World has a Wiki and other services that provide information on WotC's IP, some taken straight from the PHB, others being interpretations made by fans like Ema. EN offer's that information for free but request that you contribute to the upkeep of the site by becoming a community suporter. Both sites request money (optional) to help in the payment of the site.

For the sake of argument, let's just imagine that ENworld had anywhere near the same amount of things who aren't comme il faut as Ema's site had.

The difference is still the following. At ENworld you can get everything you want, for free (except the search function! but that's hardly related to WotC's IP or whatnot). At Ema's you could get some things for free, but if you wanted everything, you had to pay.

Analogy:
Two guys make their own adventures, set in forgotten realms. They use monsters, items and traps straight out of the three core books. They both distribute these via their website.

WotC doesn't care. It's fan-stuff, and WotC likes their fans, because lets face it, they wouldn't exist without.

Then something changes. One site says: hey, if you guys want to be able to search all our adventures for key-words, you have to pony up some cash.

WotC still doesn't care. The site makes money off a search function, it's not their business.

Then the other guy says: Hey, from now on, you can still get some of my adventures for free, but the new stuff, you have to pay for it.

Suddenly WotC cares. Because the second guy is now in fact selling and making money directly of WotC's IP.

Okay, someone could probably come up with a much better analogy, but the point was just to show that there is a huge difference between what ENworld is and what Ema's site was.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

I thought the key was that Ema was using officail art from the core rule books and FR books.

I don't see morrus using any of the art from the phb, I don't see anyone else using WOTC copyright, background images for their characters sheets, I could be wrong but in my imagination that was the real killer to Ema not any of the rules he used.

 

[dvvega]

@roguerouge
Actually the holder of the copyright does not even have to state his material is copyrighted in many cases, artistic being one of them. In addition fair use differs from country to country. For example in the US you are pretty much allowed to enact a very wide base fair use with music, software etc. Here in Australia there is no such "fair use" for Australian materials. Luckily the Berne convention lets us use the copyright of the originating country.

@ Oldtimer
I have used copyright and copyright law interchangeably since the Berne convention set this up. Any outside copyright is given the same rights as any internal copyright within any country that signed up. My mistake that may confuse some readers.

@ Bemoaners of lost data
Because of the copyright infringement, all services Ema offers related to that infringement become a legal issue. Yes he was charging for "storage" of data but that data represented some copyrighted material. Unfortunately in the process all of your works are derived from that material even if it was a character name or the background of said character. Which is a bit of a pain but that is the law in all those countries that signed up to Berne.

Do I think that deleting all of Ema's data without consultation was wrong? No. Because even allowing a backup of said data would have implied that WOTC was waiving their copyright to the material on Ema's site.

Do I feel for you? Yes I do.

Should you get your money back? That is something you need to decide within yourselves. Did you get your money's worth? Do you feel that you did?

D