Ema's RPG Sheet Website down...

[mudbunny]

I would guess that that entails FAR more work than is feasible. After all, you'd have to go into every single document, delete the offending material and then resave it and forward it to you. This is quite likely too much work to be reasonable considering the number of files you're looking at.

It also depends on what his ISP's rules were/are for things like this. It is entirely possible (and highly probable) that their policies are "If you put up content that violates IP, and we are asked to take it down, your entire website disappears." There is no realistic way for the IP techs to have the required knowledge to determine what is infringing and what is not infringing.

 

[chriton227]

Read the comment in the thread pointed to by Old Timer. It is from Ema and he states that he was told the ISP followed the C&D from WotC to the letter and stupidly, like freaking sheep, deleted the data.

In that case, Ema is giving different stories to different folks. Here is what he sent me directly when I asked if there was any way to get any of the character info I had saved:

Unfortunately not... part of my agreement with WotC was that I erased my databases
I'm really sorry...

Ciao,
Ema.

 

[chriton227]

We have still infringed copyright law. Dowling did not get that part of his charges overturned or challenged.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought copyright infringement wasn't wrong, just that copyright infringement and theft are two completely different things both by definition and by legal code and precedents.

I'm just edgy and worked up because the tools Ema managed to create for his site were the types of tools WotC should have posted on their site on Jan 6 2008 for 4e, and should have had on their site before then for 3.x. What I'm left with now is the atrociously ugly things that the DDI character creator can produce, where it doesn't even bother to do some of the calculations (how hard would it have been to calculate out 1/2 level plus stat mod for Resourceful Presence?), let you manually edit anything on the character sheet, or even export it to PDF or RTF to be able to send it electronically to your GM for review (important if you run an online game like I do).

Technically almost any other 4e character sheet on the web, whether a fillable PDF, a Word doc, or an Excel sheet, violates WotC's IP, at least if it does anything at all automatically or lists the feats or powers. I did a quick check of several D&D 4e sheets at RPGSheets, every one I looked at was in violation. If you want to get technical, if I make my own status cards that detail out the effects of the 4e conditions to use in my own game, I'm reproducing WotC's content without prior written consent and distributing it to other individuals (the other players in the game), thus violating copyright law. Would I even be allowed to enter someone else's character from the game I'm playing in into the Character Builder and print them out a character sheet without violating the DDI/CB licensing agreement or WotC's IP? When Dungeons & Dragons starts to feel like Lawyers & Lawsuits, it's time to pack up and find a different game to play.

Did WotC have the right to shut down Ema's? Definitely. Do I feel doing so benefited the game or the community of players? Not a chance. Do I feel that there should have been some form of middle-ground between ignoring Ema's site and ordering it razed? Absolutely. I would have loved to have seen some sort of licensing agreement worked out, one that would have allowed the resource in some form to still exist, while at the same time allowing WotC to maintain control of their IP. But WotC has made sure that will never happen.

 

[darjr]

Further Edit: actually, anyone who reads this, ignore my comments and take what you will from the quotes. I think it is reasonable that they are both right and upfront and most likely are, I just don't know the details, and now I'm loathe to speculate further.

Edit: after reading it again I think that both messages could fall in line, probably do. Ema got the letter, and the ISP got it from Ema...

In that case, Ema is giving different stories to different folks. Here is what he sent me directly when I asked if there was any way to get any of the character info I had saved:

Unfortunately not... part of my agreement with WotC was that I erased my databases
I'm really sorry...

Ciao,
Ema.

Ah... I'm not saying that.

Here is the post at WotC's forums, I have no way of confirming if it is actually from Ema. And actually it was from someone else.

In any case, it looks like there's no hope for data retrieval. Here's the response I got.

From: Emanuele Sacchi [emass_70 @t hotmail d.t com]

Hi xxxxx,

Unfortunately the data has gone for good... as soon as they were notified of the C&D, my service provider techies erased (as requested by WotC) all my databases, besides physically removing the site from the servers.
To tell the truth, WotC letter didn't have margins for negotiation, so they did the right thing, even if giving me the time to retrieve at least some of the data would have been nice.

I'm really sorry, but I don't have any data - I lost myself all my PCs, my buddies' sheets and several NPCs I intended to use for our campaign

Ciao,
Ema.

From Wizards Community - View Single Post - emass-web.com - Cease and Desist?

 

[xechnao]

Technically almost any other 4e character sheet on the web, whether a fillable PDF, a Word doc, or an Excel sheet, violates WotC's IP, at least if it does anything at all automatically or lists the feats or powers. I did a quick check of several D&D 4e sheets at RPGSheets, every one I looked at was in violation. If you want to get technical, if I make my own status cards that detail out the effects of the 4e conditions to use in my own game, I'm reproducing WotC's content without prior written consent and distributing it to other individuals (the other players in the game), thus violating copyright law. Would I even be allowed to enter someone else's character from the game I'm playing in into the Character Builder and print them out a character sheet without violating the DDI/CB licensing agreement or WotC's IP? When Dungeons & Dragons starts to feel like Lawyers & Lawsuits, it's time to pack up and find a different game to play.

You should not be charging money. If you charge money for something then at least it should not leave your place. I think.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

ok so this is a quick couple of quastions for everyon posting here...


Is there anyone here that feel the site was not performing an illigal act?

Is there anyone here that thinks WotC did not have the right by law to send the C&D?

Is there anyone here that honnestly belives that copyright and trademark infringment should just be accepted and not punished???

 

[xechnao]

Is there anyone here that honnestly belives that copyright and trademark infringment should just be accepted and not punished???

I am against copyright law and pro public-institution/state control. For example IMO drugs should be made public and sponsored by the states. This way drug research would deal less with marketable baldness and more with malaria that is not as marketable since the poor people of Africa cant afford to pay the companies the ROI they seek.

 

[Sammael]

Is there anyone here that feel the site was not performing an illigal act?

Not me.

Is there anyone here that thinks WotC did not have the right by law to send the C&D?

Again, not me.

Is there anyone here that honnestly belives that copyright and trademark infringment should just be accepted and not punished???

Each case of copyright and trademark infringement should be treated on its own and handled with care. Treating a website which offered a needed service (yes, it was needed, because WotC sheets are unusable crap) for thousands of people for several years without profit the same as a shipment of Chinese-manufactured Rolex forgeries is not, in my opinion, a good way to handle these things.

 

[Mistwell]

Actually, I contacted Ema to ask about getting at least the raw data from my characters (name, descriptions, etc.) and was informed that as part of the agreement with WotC, all of the data (including my data) had been deleted. So apparently WotC had no problems dictating the destruction of my intellectual property while they were defending their own. I don't see how WotC could have any legal standing to request the destruction of data that was in no way their intellectual property (unless they copyrighted the names Cormax, Darya, Marcus, Daja, and others).

Dictating? You were told it was part on an agreement. WOTC didn't dictate, they came to a settlement with EMA. And you do not like the settlement EMA and WOTC agreed to. So, you have decided to blame WOTC for it? How about you are not happy that EMA breached copyright and trademark laws thus leading them to decide to settle with WOTC out of court for a settlement which included losing your data?

 

[Mistwell]

Read the comment in the thread pointed to by Old Timer. It is from Ema and he states that he was told the ISP followed the C&D from WotC to the letter and stupidly, like freaking sheep, deleted the data.

I think they followed the settlement agreement reached between EMA and WOTC which included EMA sending the C&D to the ISP...not just a C&D sent by WOTC to them blindly.