Ema's RPG Sheet Website down...

[Oldtimer]

If you don't understand that stealing intellectual property is stealing, there's no point in having a discussion.

Obviously not. But, you are welcome back when you have read up on the law.

 

[Oldtimer]

So, what do you call a venture in which you offer a service in exchange for payment? Most people call that a business.

So, I must ask, do you consider ENWorld a fan site or a business?

 

[crazy_cat]

So, I must ask, do you consider ENWorld a fan site or a business?

A business. A business that primarily exists to operate a website for RPG fans, but it is most definitely a business by most reasonable definitions.

 

[Oldtimer]

There was also a poster who mentioned something about copyright laws in Italy and if it allowed Ema to do what he did. Yes each country has their own copyright laws, however each country as also agreed with each other country that copyright laws from external places will be enacted inside their borders.

That poster would be me.

Ah, yes, the Berne Convention. I think you'll find that copyright from external places will be enacted inside their borders, not copyright laws. It would be very strange if I could force a US jurisdiction to follow the details of swedish laws. I doubt a US judge is that well read on swedish law.

So the details of this case would need to be according to italian law. And, as they say, the devil is in the details.

 

[Oldtimer]

A business. A business that primarily exists to operate a website for RPG fans, but it is most definitely a business by most reasonable definitions.

Then the fan site policy (whenever it appears) would not apply to ENWorld. So isn't ENWorld infringing on WotC copyright? I mean, the forum 4e Fan Creations and House Rules - EN World D&D / RPG News is full of derivative material produced without a license. And ENWorld is encuraging people to produce and publish such infringing material.

Or is there something obvious I'm missing? Is this business allowed to use WotC material due to some private agreement? Couldn't a similar agreement been made with Ema?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

So, I must ask, do you consider ENWorld a fan site or a business?

I consider EN World first and foremost the best D&D website with some of the most imaginative, caring, sensible yet passionate members and posters on the web. A fair percentage of my spare time, attention and inspiration has been poured onto this site... and freely given too. However, I also accept that this site is a business. It has become a commercial venture so as it can keep going. However, as Scott Rouse pointed out, it is also a site that has respected and will obviously continue to respect intellectual property.

From your posts Oldtimer, I'm not too sure if you had seen or used Ema's site recently. Not back when it was the place to go for a character sheet, but when it became a commercial venture? While I respect the intent of what Ema was doing (filling a fairly large gap), he obviously did not have the legal right to fill that gap. Unfortunate as it is (my friend has lost data from the plug being pulled), neither of us are surprised that it had to come to an end sometime.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Jack99]

Then the fan site policy (whenever it appears) would not apply to ENWorld. So isn't ENWorld infringing on WotC copyright? I mean, the forum 4e Fan Creations and House Rules - EN World D&D / RPG News is full of derivative material produced without a license. And ENWorld is encuraging people to produce and publish such infringing material.

Or is there something obvious I'm missing? Is this business allowed to use WotC material due to some private agreement? Couldn't a similar agreement been made with Ema?

How is that even remotely the same. Everything posted in the 4e fan forums is free. If ENworld or the poster were charging people for viewing or downloading the stuff posted there, I can assure you that WotC would step in. And that's basically the whole issue. The moment Ema started earning money based on what belongs to WotC, his site stopped being a fansite. As it is, ENworld is not a business. EN Publishing is.

 

[avin]

It seems pretty clear to me that Ema was getting $ using Wotc IP, no matter what his good intentions were.

 

[darjr]

I think they followed the settlement agreement reached between EMA and WOTC which included EMA sending the C&D to the ISP...not just a C&D sent by WOTC to them blindly.

I said I wasn't going to speculate any more. But I feel I must say that I think it is possible that the ISP deleted stuff only AFTER talking with Ema, I don't know that, but it seems like it could have worked out that way.

If Ema requested the deletion, then my criticism of them is wrong.

 

[roguerouge]

Since people are being all snippy and saying things like "You don't know the law! *SNAP*" I thought I'd post a link to a beginner's understanding of a relevant US law, fair use: Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Copyright law was not designed to give owners a monopoly on their work. It was designed to "promote the progress of the sciences and the useful arts." In doing so, the US gave creators and inventors a limited control over the use of the work.

In addition, the burden of proof is on the copyright holder to prove harms, as shown in the case of Sony v. Universal, and it is the single most important prong of the fair use test.

Finally, fair use exceptions should be encouraged according to corporations like Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, etc.: "Fair Use exceptions to US copyright laws were responsible for more than $4,500 Billion dollars in annual revenue for the United States economy representing one-sixth of the total U.S. GDP.... fair use dependent industries are directly responsible for more than 18% of U.S. economic growth and nearly 11 million American jobs."

So, perhaps we can start to consider those people who err on the side of permissiveness as NOT being thieves and have a rational conversation, hmm?