Ema's RPG Sheet Website down...

[catsclaw227]

I'm not happy that the current state of copyright law (and the ever increasing duration) in the US is "protect corporate interests" over "promoting the progress of science and the useful arts".

You are right, this sucks. (And I think we are teetering on a borderline political discussion, so I will just say that.)

All of the power and spell descriptions cited the source and page of the original information (which is what I though was the acceptable way of reproducing information from other sources, although Ema could have used more formal citations rather than PHB.106).

If I am not mistaken, following the GSL, you can't reproduce the text, only the name of the power and the source location (book, page). Though I am guessing that Ema didn't sign the GSL, so this little detail is irrelevant.

 

[Xyxox]

<snip>It did include logos...<snip>

Then it wasn't a case about copyright at all. It was a case about trademarks.

That makes a lot more sense.

 

[Morrus]

Morrus has made it clear that EN does not condone the listing of WotC's IP in threads, but at the same time EN isn't actually doing anything to stop it.

Sure we are. We tell people they're not allowed to do it; and if we see it, we delete it. And I'm pretty sure WotC is more than happy with that.

 

[Xyxox]

Morrus has made it clear that EN does not condone the listing of WotC's IP in threads, but at the same time EN isn't actually doing anything to stop it. <snip>

Not true. ENWorld has a policy against it and takes measures to correct the actions of a few posters when violation of that policy is brought to ENWorld's attention.

That proves ENWorld IS doing something about it.

 

[Jack99]

I guess then we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

The "right" of WotC (that is supported by many on this thread) to send out C&D letters in support of unauthorized use of their IP, doesn't appear to ber limited between IP that is spread out over a few thousand posts, as opposed to that which is spread out over a couple of character sheets.

Morrus has made it clear that EN does not condone the listing of WotC's IP in threads, but at the same time EN isn't actually doing anything to stop it. The same "right" that WotC has apparently used to shut down Ema's can be used on any other site that has any unauthorized IP. And I don't think anyone can claim that EN doesn't have WotC IP on their site, and is collecting money to support it.

Just an opinion.

Sure we are. We tell people they're not allowed to do it; and if we see it, we delete it. And I'm pretty sure WotC is more than happy with that.

So, we have established that EN world does indeed do something about it. But maybe you will prove Morrus wrong and show us where significant parts of the rules are posted wholesale on the site?

Because if not, then there is a difference, aside from Morrus' alleged bubbly personality.

 

[Xath]

It's a shame that the entire site had to be taken down. I still really like Ema's 3.5 character and spell sheets.

 

[tomBitonti]

Hey,

If we could be clear ...

Based on a read of the recent ruling re: The Harry Potter index, the summary of the ruling that I read commented that the creation of the index was fair use as a transformative work, and that the problem was that the entries had too much of the original content. (Large sections of text placed verbatim, if I understand correctly.)

If I view character creation and power code software as transformative of the original books, and have abandoned the GSL for general copyright law, and I am clear to use my own text in the power cards, and do not use any art or trademark symbols, wouldn't that put the Character Creator and Power Card software clearly in fair use?

And, even if WotC created their own software for character creation and for printing power cards, any infringement of the software copyrights would be centered on UI elements, and on the source code itself.

For those interested, see:

Fair Use of Copyrighted Materials

And:

http://www.arl.org/bm~doc/harrypotterrev2.pdf

In particular, (quoting from the harry potter link):

Considering the fourth fair-use factor, the effect of the use on the potential market for the work, Judge Patterson rejected J. K. Rowling’s argument that the Lexicon would impair the market for an encyclopedia she planned to write. Judge Patterson ruled that “the market for reference guides to the Harry Potter works is not exclusively hers to exploit or license, no matter the commercial success attributable to the popularity of the original works.” Judge Patterson added that “[t]he market for reference guides does not become derivative simply because the copyright holder seeks to produce or license one.”

 

[catsclaw227]

Based on a read of the recent ruling re: The Harry Potter index, the summary of the ruling that I read commented that the creation of the index was fair use as a transformative work, and that the problem was that the entries had too much of the original content. (Large sections of text placed verbatim, if I understand correctly.)

If I view character creation and power code software as transformative of the original books, and have abandoned the GSL for general copyright law, and I am clear to use my own text in the power cards, and do not use any art or trademark symbols, wouldn't that put the Character Creator and Power Card software clearly in fair use?

I am not sure the legalities of that, but according to dvvega's post earlier, the power cards didn't have Ema's own text, but instead the full text.

I have sitting right in front of me a file of Warlord Attack powers I printed off Ema's site only recently 7th Jan 2009 which clearly has ALL the power text and even the power quote for Hammer and Anvil for example.

 

[tomBitonti]

I am not sure the legalities of that, but according to dvvega's post earlier, the power cards didn't have Ema's own text, but instead the full text.

That would be a problem, I wholly agree.

But, if the cards were amended to have text which was rewritten to convey the rules content, but which still had the power titles, would that bring the site into compliance?

Updating the software to leave out the text seems to be pretty straightforward.

Rewriting the text would be a chore, but not too hard of one.

Thx!

TomB

 

[Khairn]

So, we have established that EN world does indeed do something about it. But maybe you will prove Morrus wrong and show us where significant parts of the rules are posted wholesale on the site?

Because if not, then there is a difference, aside from Morrus' alleged bubbly personality.

Hey, I've got no problems with being being proven wrong. It happens all the time. So EN world does take action when they find anyone has posted anything verbatim. Got it.

But I still see very little difference between 2 sites that both attract users using WotC IP, provide content and support for that IP and collect money to gain full access to tools and services on their respective sites. If the only difference between the 2 sites is the use of a logo or the copying of a few power cards, then I really don't understand why a C&D was required.

Having lived through those heady days of TSR using similar tactics to protect the very same IP, I can't help but see this as a sad situation.