Emerald Press looking for artists

[LrdApoc]

Thanks Richard,

I will definately take this to the other principals and see what we can work out.

I now also understand that I did not state the full intent of the arrangement in the intial post.. I've always tended toward the cautious side when publishing contractual or business deals in an open public forum. And the verbage I use was too vague for the scope of the intent.

Shawn

 

[Eternalknight]

Ok, time for me to make a comment. And hopefully clear this up.

I am the publisher. Note the first reply in this thread by me was later edited; the reason being that i had replied to what i considered a rude comment (show the dough) in a rude manner, and later thought it was undiserved. Then I get people posting rude comments, telling people to 'avoid our bad deal'.

You know, all we want to do is have some fun, put out some (hopefully) good quality products, and maybe make us and everyone invoved some money. I'm not going to print our financial situation here, as it is no one's buisness but ours and those that are helping us. But, and remember this, one of our products is free. Everything in it will be volunteer. If we like your artwork and you are able to meet deadlines, you will be considered for our d20 options line, which is a paid job. If you do not wish to volunteer, good luck to you in your future endevaours, but please don't contacts us when we are looking for artists for d20 options.

But, please, do not try to put people off us when we have done nothing worng. That's just rude and demorilizing.

Thank you Crothian and HellHound for your comments.

Shane Garvey,

Publisher - Emerald Press.

 

[Priest]

Another voice in this thread, I am the Associate Editor to EternalKnight, and I am fully behind Shawn (Our Art Director) in the call for volunteer artwork.

And sure we would love to pay you in advance for your artwork especially if your willing to make deadlines for the first run of the Product, but as has been stated we are hobbiests first and formost, Publishers second which means that initial funding is lacking for artwork.

And like Shawn I to have stepped up and put my own albiet limited artistic talents into the fold, without expectation of pay in the future for what I have given.

One must not find himself believing that he is worth more than his fellow man for the gifts that have been given to him.

So for Storn (whose artwork I enjoy) and rpace I would say that I am sorry that you feel the way you do, and that while it came off as a harsh response to our call for artists I too can see your point. And as professionals this call was not really for you, but more for the amatuer artist who'd like some recognition.

After all we are all gamers at heart, and the process of creating material is meant to be benefitial to everyone from the Artist, to the Publisher, to the random reader. I would sugest to my fellow staff that a promise of contributor copies (for roughly the contributor and 1 other copy) would be a good promise of pay for the first initial response, then followed up by a back pay of whatever the Art Department budgeting is at this point (not including my own Cover art wage which as far as I am concerned can be paid out to the interior artists whose real talents are deserving)

Nuff said,

Peace my fellow posters.

Nat Jens,
Associate Line Editor: D20 Options
Emerald Press

Associate Editor In Chief
Emerald Nights D20 Gaming Source

 

[Dr Midnight]

Hi-
If I may offer some VERY CAREFULLY WORDED perspective, I'd like to say that artists get requests constantly for free art, and sometimes we're offered "being seen by the public" or even "credits" as incentive. It's not nearly as worthwhile as most new publishers seem to believe it is. I think that's why you're getting the rude responses. The freelance art field, and especially RPG art, don't have much to live on. Art = time & effort = money, and to a lot of us, providing free art for an "opportunity" just isn't any opportunity at all. A lot of people don't realize that it can be very frustrating sometimes when you constantly feel people probing you for the best way to get you to work for cheap or free.

You meant no harm, we're just a touchy, bitchy lot sometimes.

However, there's no call to come into the publisher's thread and berate people. That's just rude. Don't like the terms, shrug and walk away.

 

[s/LaSH]

I've already jumped on and done volunteer work for this (free) project. I'm paranoid and overly cautious, but I decided to do it anyway. Why do something so 'insane'?

Exposure and experience. See, I think I'm a fairly good artist, and I'd like to get the word out that I'm available. I didn't see anywhere else at the time, so I jumped on it. Plus, I enjoyed the project. I developed an interesting approach to colouring cracks in marble while processing it by computer. I think it was a good move.

And the piece I did will look good when I stroll down the road to Weta Workshops and ask them for a job...

 

[Storn]

However, there's no call to come into the publisher's thread and berate people. That's just rude. Don't like the terms, shrug and walk away.

I repectfully disagree. it is precisely because this is a forum of more hobby enthusiasts, amateur artists that I responded the way I did. Am I protective of upcoming freelancers? YOU BETCHYA!!!!

I was an upcoming freelancer at one point. If I can help another artist avoid some of the pitfalls I fell into... I don't care if y'all think I'm rude.

And ironically, I'm trying to help this fledgling company out as well. If you don't pay money for your art.... YOU WON'T GET GOOD ART!!!! It is that simple. You might get lucky a couple of times, but over the long haul... nope, not going to happen. and the costs of missing printing deadlines, or pissing off customers because of late art (and artists who don't get paid don't have great incentive to hit deadlines) will cost you MUCH, MUCH MORE than cost of decent art in the first place. So, from a practical, business POV, it is in your best interest to pay your artists at least something.

Hey, giving up and coming artists a chance and a break is wonderful. But trust me, you will not be happy with amateur art when your product is standing next to Green Ronin's or WoTC or even ICE (which is putting together an impressive stable at the moment).

If you don't have good art, then you are NOT a contender in this full publishing field. You will not be picked up by game store owners, you won't be given a second look on the shelves if you do get in. You've just minimized your sales potential before you've started.

Lastly, if you are an new-to-the-field artist and you are reading this; trust me on this SALIENT point. If you charge a decent wage for your services, you will be respected. Your time has worth. Your talent has worth. Do NOT work for free. If you don't, people will walk all over you.

 

[Storn]

Another voice in this thread, I am the Associate Editor to EternalKnight, and I am fully behind Shawn (Our Art Director) in the call for volunteer artwork.
but as has been stated we are hobbiests first and formost, Publishers second which means that initial funding is lacking for artwork.




After all we are all gamers at heart, and the process of creating material is meant to be benefitial to everyone from the Artist, to the Publisher, to the random reader.

WRONG.

YOU ARE A BUSINESS. Til you understand that, you are doomed to failure. You are not a publisher, you are a fanzine. If you are fanzine and want to be a fanzine, fine. Then present yourselves as such.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I apologize if that sounds rude. But you cannot expect others to put in time & money (hey art supplies cost money) just so your hobby is expanded at your end. You can do that on your own. I am a gamer, I do free art for my own game all the time. But I don't expect writers to write for me for free. Or other artists to do so.

And the exposure and the recognition you are suggesting...sorry folks, its MINIMAL.

Spectrum is exposure.
Dragon mag is exposure.

Yet another amateur d20 venture is not. Even if you get your ideas published, 90% of the fans who buy will not even give the artist credits a single look. The 10% who do? They will not go running to Wotc's editors and tell them "hey look at this great artist in Emerald Press!" So, it is in the artist's best interest to submit work to the places where he/she gets paid... he will get more exposure and he will get paid.

Now. I'm not saying that you folks can't succeed. You can. But you have to think of yourselves as a business, have a plan, have investment capital, pay for art and advertising, pay your writers.

 

[shivamuffin]

All this blah blah.

Emerald needs free art, if their product does well, in the futire the gracious volunteers will most likely be first picks for paying work.
It's an investment of time and talent.

The world is filled with people that feel entitled to something. News flash...You're not. Anything good requires hours and hours of unpleasantness to obtain.

Considering that artists are doing what they love, the unpleasantness of not getting paid is trivial. Emerald has opened the door to opportunity, and any worthwhile artist that's just entering the market would be foolish to dither over the pay issue.

Just my opinion, and show of support for another budding D20 publisher.


BTW, I do photo's, I'm a lousy artist. I would eat a Kilo of belly button lint to have half the talent the artists here at EnWorld have displayed. If you're a good artist, take a risk and help these guys out...You would be just sitting around drawing for free anyway! That's what artists do...right!?.

 

[rpace]

................
The world is filled with people that feel entitled to something. News flash...You're not. Anything good requires hours and hours of unpleasantness to obtain.

Considering that artists are doing what they love, the unpleasantness of not getting paid is trivial. Emerald has opened the door to opportunity, and any worthwhile artist that's just entering the market would be foolish to dither over the pay issue.
...................
If you're a good artist, take a risk and help these guys out...You would be just sitting around drawing for free anyway! That's what artists do...right!?.

When I first read this I was laughing because I thought you were being deliciously sarcastic -- then I realised you must really believe this.

I guess doctors should work for free when they start out -- I mean they're only doing it because they love healing people. It's not like they wouldn't be practicing medicine anyway -- it's what doctors do. . . .right?

I really hate the idea that we should take less or no pay because we enjoy what we do for a living.

I really, really hate the idea that bringing up non-specific business issues is rude when it involves art and start-up companies.

These attitudes are insulting in the extreme and sadly quite prevalent in the amateur and semi-pro arena.

I thought I was done with this thread, I even resisted the urge to respond to the publisher shifting gears, in George Bush-like fashion, from would-be professional endeavour to "all we want to do is have some fun".

But, no, someone had to pipe in that artists should be happy to give away their work because they chose to be artists. What's so sad about that is that so many would-be artists feel they have to agree with that mindset.
~R

 

[shivamuffin]

Shoudn't be happy, just not outraged. Beginning artists have always had to bite it at first. Few ever walked into immediate prosperity. Visual artists, like actors, dancers, and musicians...have always suffered knowing that the pay comes later, once they get recognized. I personally think it sucks, but that's how the world seems to work. Michael Angelo was ripped off by the pope after doing his chapel painting that is so famous, and he was a sculptor by trade! ( He took a job for cash, ended up doing it for free, and today he's considered a genius. )

Doctors have a skill that is in demand and a necessity, so natuarally they WILL get instant gratification as far as pay is concerned...Artistic works are a luxury, and society ( unfortunately ) does not give it the same priority, even though it is in great demand as well. The rewards for going through the motions far exceed a doctors pay....Julia Roberts, standard paycheck per movie...20 million+.

Emerald's offer may be insulting to those that have attained the privileage to get paid for their work ( It shouldn't be ), but it is a wonderful opportunity to those that are seeking a career as illustrators. Pierce Brosnan had to model underwear before he was " discovered ", and I'm sure he had to show his tush for free on many occasions just to get the underwear gig.

I come from a long line of people with artistic talent. Great talent that skipped me ( stupid genes ). They weren't willing to do what it takes to pursue their interests, and opted for a regular job and a paycheck, thus depriving the world of their talent. They had the same attitude, " why should I waste my time with this, I can't buy groceries doing this crap. " Artists are cursed with the reality I have just explained, those that take the necessary risks will MOST LIKELY prosper.

A positive example is my wife. She actually paid to do what she loves, which is middle eastern dancing. for years she paid ( costumes, classes, etc... ), performed for free, taught classes for free. Eventually she was recognized and can make $200+ an hour respectfully ( Arab men are well behaved, polite, and do not request sex or nudity, decent people all around. )

Trashing Emerald for their post was not cool. They did no wrong, and I think they're offer is fair.