Pathfinder 2E Encounter Design in PF2 works.

dave2008

Legend
They don't have to do it deliberately to be a problem in play, though. If some particular thing or things an ancestry gets feel too valuable (or worthless) that can cause bad feelings in a group even when no one meant anything by it.

(This is the issue with a lot of mechanical imbalance; it doesn't require deliberate abuse to be a problem).
I'm sure that is possible, but we've been gaming together for 30+ we don't have any issue speaking up if something is bothering us and we make corrections as needed.
 

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Thomas Shey

Legend
I'm sure that is possible, but we've been gaming together for 30+ we don't have any issue speaking up if something is bothering us and we make corrections as needed.

If you've got an easygoing group, it probably isn't a big one. I can't particularly characterize most groups I've ever played with that way; the ones willing to speak up are liable to be soggy about it, and the ones that don't get soggy are nonconfrontational enough they'll likely suffer in silence, at least for a while.
 

I believe they have taken steps to, if not fix, then at least ameliorate these problems. For example, Kindled Magic (part 1 of Strength of Thousands) is a level 1-3 adventure instead of 1-4 (giving more room to roleplaying and dealing with NPCs), and has a greater emphasis on non-violent solutions to things.

SoT is better but I think they are still a little trapped in prior addition thinking. SoT tends to have 3 types of set ups as far as I can tell:

1) non combat situations where you get some xp but often just 1 combat worth. These are fairly frequent but you could easily just up the XP and cut other combat down depending on the story. There shouldn't really be any need to "fill the XP budget" with combat encounters. Just use non combat and story awards to make up the difference.
2) set piece fights which unfortunately mostly tend to be low stakes "helping" quests or obstacles on the way to something else, for instance while traveling. These are often 1 or 2 per day situations.
3) smaller 5-6 room "dungeons" of various types -- cavern, mansion, prison, ruins, abandoned temple, etc. The dungeons still seem to contain a decent amount of Level +3/4 encounters given you are expected to go through all 5-6-7 encounters in 1 day but at least they all aren't that anymore. Almost all the "plot movement" seems associated with these small dungeons.

What they haven't done much of yet that I've seen is the very dynamic big set piece combat integral to the plot bracketed by non combat investigation / research / travel / etc. that significantly moves the plot.

As with 4e, PF2e doesn't rely as much on the resource attrition model so this should fit well with PF2e.

Great examples are some/most of the Zeitgeist modules.

I think they would also be great for PF2e and should be used alongside non combat and small Dungeon (and window dressing encounters if wanted).

Personally, I would appreciate fewer well designed set pieces with large maps, interesting terrain, custom monsters, objectives other than kill everyone, etc. rather than the many "small map with generic monster" encounters that SoT and Quest for the Frozen Flame part 1 have.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Well, there are two issues I think should be kept in mind:

1. Its probably perceived that the majority of end users kind of want a fair bit of combat encounters, which could well be more than a given person in this thread wants; and
2. Stacking up multiple encounters a day isn't as big a deal as it is in some prior editions because nonmagical healing is so strong.
 

Staffan

Legend
Well, there are two issues I think should be kept in mind:

1. Its probably perceived that the majority of end users kind of want a fair bit of combat encounters, which could well be more than a given person in this thread wants; and
2. Stacking up multiple encounters a day isn't as big a deal as it is in some prior editions because nonmagical healing is so strong.
Number 2 is still an issue at low levels before Medicine actually becomes strong (which I'd define as Expert, Continuous Recovery, and maybe Ward Medic) – A non-rogue/non-investigator focusing on that would need to be 6th level if they don't want to focus excessively on being the party medic (that's 3rd level for Expert Medicine, 4th for one of the skill feats, and 6th for the second – it can be done faster if you use your 3rd level general feat for one of the skill feats or if you take the Medic dedication, but I think either one of those is going above and beyond what's expected). And it's the early levels where party resources tend to be the most strained.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Number 2 is still an issue at low levels before Medicine actually becomes strong (which I'd define as Expert, Continuous Recovery, and maybe Ward Medic) – A non-rogue/non-investigator focusing on that would need to be 6th level if they don't want to focus excessively on being the party medic

Its not a particularly painful thing to do as a side gig for a Champion either. I've done it.

(And of course assuming there isn't a specialist to some degree is still not something I'd assume--they just don't have to tie up their magical resources in it any more).
 

Staffan

Legend
Its not a particularly painful thing to do as a side gig for a Champion either. I've done it.

(And of course assuming there isn't a specialist to some degree is still not something I'd assume--they just don't have to tie up their magical resources in it any more).
I mean, I'd expect someone in the party to grab Continuous Recovery and Ward Medic. I just wouldn't assume they'd use the level 3 General feat as a skill feat to do it. There's "I want to be the medic", and then there's "I really want to be the medic."
 

Philip Benz

A Dragontooth Grognard
Even without those feats which make treat wounds work well above the baseline, out of combat healing still works fairly well, even from 1st level. My initial group included a fighter, a rogue, a druid and a wizard, and whadayaknow, they all decided to be trained in medicine at 1st level. After a fight, if their initial attempts at Treat Wounds failed, they would simply withdraw back to their home base and wait a few hours or a day to get back into fighting shape before pursuing the adventure.

Granted, I'd set up the scenario (home brewed campaign) in such a way that it was relatively easy to go back home and heal. I also quickly set them up with a hotline to a local cleric who gave them a few healing potions as a reward for a job well done on previous missions. There are always ways to get around not having a cleric in the group.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Even without those feats which make treat wounds work well above the baseline, out of combat healing still works fairly well, even from 1st level. My initial group included a fighter, a rogue, a druid and a wizard, and whadayaknow, they all decided to be trained in medicine at 1st level. After a fight, if their initial attempts at Treat Wounds failed, they would simply withdraw back to their home base and wait a few hours or a day to get back into fighting shape before pursuing the adventure.

Generally I agree, though the issue is sometimes the latter is not practical, so failures here can be a bit of a problem.

But yes, the fact its relatively economic to have multiple people with the healing skill makes a fair bit of difference here. The only reason we didn't have the whole group with it in the current campaign is my wife looked around and decided it'd be pretty much redundant with all three other characters having it.
 


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