Level Up (A5E) End the 5 minute work-day by making all classes work off short rests.

[Zsong]

I do many dungeons that if they rest. The villain escapes and relocates. I probaly push my players through 8 to 12 encounters without a short rest. The chance of a random encounter during a short rest is too great. Although sometimes they get one in. My wizards typically don’t burn spell slots unless very necessary. Well I am running 1E right now, but i get similar results with 5E

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm curious......do many tables actually have this problem (I realize all answers here are anecdotes)......

 

[Horwath]

I'm curious......do many tables actually have this problem (I realize all answers here are anecdotes)......

I do not see this as a problem if the group likes that kind of play.

But every time that there is not time pressure, every party will rest after every combat that they spent any significant amount of resources; spell slots/HPs/special features limited by long rest.

 

[tetrasodium]

I do not see this as a problem if the group likes that kind of play.

But every time that there is not time pressure, every party will rest after every combat that they spent any significant amount of resources; spell slots/HPs/special features limited by long rest.

Its actually a pretty serious problem because wotc chose to make short rest classes with the same abilities as long rest classes or with abilities equivalent to those of long rest classes and llthrew up their hands leaving it to the gm to balance the two. There are also classes who are hurt by it with the easiest example being the artilerist artificer who is designed as a half caster with a 1/long rest 1hr duration turret that takes a spell slot to recreate with zero short rest recovery abilities who is literally depleted of a limited resource for the short rest classes to nova>rest nova

 

[Zaukrie]

I do not see this as a problem if the group likes that kind of play.

But every time that there is not time pressure, every party will rest after every combat that they spent any significant amount of resources; spell slots/HPs/special features limited by long rest.

"every party" was kind of my question. It isn't true at either of my tables that it happens all the time, hence the question......

also what is "likes that kind of play" mean? I mean, often when we do short rest, we just handwave it. It's like it didn't matter at all (raising the question about what is a short rest, really)....

 

[tetrasodium]

"every party" was kind of my question. It isn't true at either of my tables that it happens all the time, hence the question......

also what is "likes that kind of play" mean? I mean, often when we do short rest, we just handwave it. It's like it didn't matter at all (raising the question about what is a short rest, really)....

If you don't always have a doom clock or similar the players will eventually start to realize that there is no reason not to. A short rest recovers all bardic inspiration uses, all channel divinity uses, knowledge cleric visions of the past ability, all wildshape charges, spell slots with combined levels adding up to half a land druid's druid worth of levels, Fighter's second wind, fighter's action surge, fighter's superiority dice, all of a monk's ki points, all of a sacred oath paladin's channel divinity, the rogue's stroke of luck ability, 4 spell points from sorcerous restoration, all warlock spell slots, fiend pact warlock dark one's own luck, goo pact warlock's entropic mind, & so on. depemdinf on party makeup it canbe a significant boon to take a short rest often for some classes

 

[Zaukrie]

If you don't always have a doom clock or similar the players will eventually start to realize that there is no reason not to. A short rest recovers all bardic inspiration uses, all channel divinity uses, knowledge cleric visions of the past ability, all wildshape charges, spell slots with combined levels adding up to half a land druid's druid worth of levels, Fighter's second wind, fighter's action surge, fighter's superiority dice, all of a monk's ki points, all of a sacred oath paladin's channel divinity, the rogue's stroke of luck ability, 4 spell points from sorcerous restoration, all warlock spell slots, fiend pact warlock dark one's own luck, goo pact warlock's entropic mind, & so on. depemdinf on party makeup it canbe a significant boon to take a short rest often for some classes

not sure why you felt the need to explain the rules to me......but, um, thanks, I guess.

 

[Horwath]

Its actually a pretty serious problem because wotc chose to make short rest classes with the same abilities as long rest classes or with abilities equivalent to those of long rest classes and llthrew up their hands leaving it to the gm to balance the two. There are also classes who are hurt by it with the easiest example being the artilerist artificer who is designed as a half caster with a 1/long rest 1hr duration turret that takes a spell slot to recreate with zero short rest recovery abilities who is literally depleted of a limited resource for the short rest classes to nova>rest nova

As I mentioned before, main problem of "short rest" is that is not really short.
1hr is too long for that kind of mechanic.
5min rest from 4E was a much better idea.
99% of the time, if you have room for a 1 hr rest, you have room for a 8hrs rest.

So we have few solutions:

1. Make all classes work from only long rests.
2. Make short rest SHORT!. 5 mins.
3. Make all classes work from short rests
4. Make short rest really short. 1 min long, but limit it to proficiency bonus times per long rest.

also return 4E healing surges, instead of HD healing.

add 3.5E reserve feats back, so casters can hold on spell slots for minor at-will magical effects.

or make make some portion of spells have different effect depending on how much power you are willing to take from the "spell slot"

I.E.
Fireball

8d6 + 2d6/spell level above 3rd fire damage in 20ft radius. 600ft range
casted this way slot recovers after long rest.

4d8 +1d8/spell level above 3rd fire damage in 10ft radius. 150ft range
casted this way, slot recovers on short rest. whatever duration of that rest might be.

4d6 + 1d6/spell level above 3rd fire damage in 5ft radius. 60ft range
spell slot is not spent.

 

[tetrasodium]

99% of the time, if you have room for a 1 hr rest, you have room for a 8hrs rest.

That hooks into another 5e problem. Back in 3.5 you had attrition of spells/spell-slots & hp through adventuring at any pace the players chose to burn them & resting to recover hp was pretty slow so there needed to be some care plus real risk for being tapped out but getting in a fight. 4e had attrition of limited surges, limited daily powers, & you might have X encouner powers but couldn't just spam your best encounter power so there was some real risk from careless attrition. 5e flips that onits head by giving you the flexibility of 3.5 and the recovery of 4e but none of the attrition of either to the point that the only way a surprise mid long rest encounter will result in meaningful attrition is if it wipes the floor with the party... of course they can just take another rest if it does

 

[Argyle King]

I believe there should be medium rests.