Energy Adaptation and Immediate Action

[takasi]

An 11th level psion can expend 11 power points to manifest energy adaptation as an immediate action.

On a dragon's turn it moves in front of the player as a move action. As its standard action it uses its breath weapon on the psion.

If the DM declares that the dragon breathes can the psion activate energy adaptation before the damage is dealt?

In other words, can you make an immediate action after another character's declared action to prevent the declared action from resulting in damage?

I understand situations like feather fall where you are falling and can cast the spell immediately. The issue I have is that when you are falling you are not taking damage until you are done falling. The spell is cast after you fall and before you take damage.

With a breath weapon there is no point before damage is dealt where the immediate action can be made. Once the dragon's action is declared damage is immediately determined. I guess you could argue that during the standard action it takes to breath the psion could manifest his power. What if the breath weapon is quickened?

 

[Infiniti2000]

In other words, can you make an immediate action after another character's declared action to prevent the declared action from resulting in damage?

I think the real question should be: "Can an immediate action interrupt other actions?" The rules aren't clear on this. Readied action interrupt other actions, but we don't know for sure if immediate actions can. The rule is very general, however: "...an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn."

"Any time" is quite easily arguable to mean interrupting any other action.

What if the breath weapon is quickened?

It doesn't matter if the breath is quickened at all. Any time is any time.

 

[takasi]

"...an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn."

But can it be done retroactively, after something is done?

Technically if it's "any time", does that mean it can be done in the past, i.e. two or three rounds earlier?

Psion can now take an immediate action.
Monster moves.
Psion can now take an immediate action.
Monster breaths fire dealing 15 points of fire damage to psion.
Psion can now take an immediate action.

How can the psion take an immediate action to do something before an event that has already occurred?

 

[MatthewJHanson]

"Any time" is quite easily arguable to mean interrupting any other action.

That's the argument I'd make.

If it helps you can think of the action as occurring after the fire (or whatever) leaves the dragon's mouth, but before it hit the character.

 

[starwed]

The whole point of the immediate action, in almost all powers which allow such an augment, is to let you interrupt another action.

How can the psion take an immediate action to do something before an event that has already occurred?

Simple, you don't. You manifest the power as the flame envelops you, protecting you from the damage. The dragon's breath dealing damage isn't an instantaneous quantum event measured in nanoseconds; there's plenty of time to respond to it. (Does a rogue use evasion to get out of the way before the dragon takes its action? No, it too is in response to the breath weapon.)

Note that you can't use an immediate action if you're flat-footed.

 

[takasi]

The whole point of the immediate action, in almost all powers which allow such an augment, is to let you interrupt another action.

Is it to interrupt another action or to make an immediate action when it isn't your turn? There are still many times when it would be useful to manifest powers in between the actions on another creature's turn.

Simple, you don't. You manifest the power as the flame envelops you, protecting you from the damage. The dragon's breath dealing damage isn't an instantaneous quantum event measured in nanoseconds; there's plenty of time to respond to it.

If it was quickened then yes, it would be an "instantaneous" event.

By the RAW where does it say that an immediate action can be retroactively declared after another's actions (like breath weapons)?

(Does a rogue use evasion to get out of the way before the dragon takes its action? No, it too is in response to the breath weapon.)

Evasion is not an action.

 

[starwed]

So a rogue using evasion just stands perfectly still? He doesn't move or act in any way? (Of course it's not an action as the game mechanic is defined. But it's still a set of actions taken in response to an event, and I thought that this is what you are arguing))

If it was quickened then yes, it would be an "instantaneous" event.

But perhaps this is the source of confusion, because an immediate action is indeed supposed to be very analogous to a quickened spell:

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time

And:

You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action.

So an immediate action is an instantaneous event, exactly like a quickened spell.

 

[takasi]

So a rogue using evasion just stands perfectly still? He doesn't move or act in any way? (Of course it's not an action as the game mechanic is defined. But it's still a set of actions taken in response to an event, and I thought that this is what you are arguing))

Evasion is considered an augmentation of a saving throw. Saving throws are nonactions. The dragon's action specifically allows a saving throw.

So an immediate action is an instantaneous event, exactly like a quickened spell.

I agree. However, simply because it is instantaneous doesn't mean it can be declared retroactively. The point I was making about quickening is related to the dragon's breath, not the augmentation.

You said earlier: "The dragon's breath dealing damage isn't an instantaneous quantum event measured in nanoseconds." But what if it is? If it's quickened then it is exactly that. So can a psion manifests energy adaptation as an immediate action once a quickened breath weapon is produced?

Can anyone answer this: does an immediate action, from the rules as written, allow a player to declare, retroactively, an action after another creature has acted to change the other creature's action?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Can anyone answer this: does an immediate action, from the rules as written, allow a player to declare, retroactively, an action after another creature has acted to change the other creature's action?

Not retroactively, but based on "any time" it could be used to interrupt one.

If you refuse to understand this then you have more significant issues at hand, like how you can counterspell a quickened magic missile with a plain old normal magic missile.

 

[frankthedm]

Can anyone answer this: does an immediate action, from the rules as written, allow a player to declare, retroactively, an action after another creature has acted to change the other creature's action?

The Jury is still out on that one.

This is one of those areas the DM needs to be clear and up front about when these 'immediate' spells and effects get allowed in. I think most immediate actions should only be perfomable when a delayed action could be resumed, the only exemption being abjurations.

If i allowed this psi power, I would say the player has to decide to put up this effect when he finds out he is in the Area of Effect of the energy attack, before saves are rolled.