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Energy Drain
- Thread starter The Shadow
- Start date
I think there needs to be some kind of in-combat detrimental effect - HD alone is damage plus out of combat healing reduction. However, they do have the advantage of being a draining "counter" that isn't mathematically entwined with other things. So I would make the drained condition something like this:
Drained - for each drained hit dice, the character takes a -1 penalty to all attacks, checks and saving throws (so 3 HD lost is a total of -3).
or if you want a more binary status
Drained - if a character has had at least half it's HD drained, it has disadvantage on all attacks, checks and saving throws.
Tougher undead would drain more HD per hit, ramping up faster. The binary version means higher level characters need to be drained more before they are penalized. The penalties also mean that being drained more makes it harder to recover HD from Con saving throws while resting.
Drained - for each drained hit dice, the character takes a -1 penalty to all attacks, checks and saving throws (so 3 HD lost is a total of -3).
or if you want a more binary status
Drained - if a character has had at least half it's HD drained, it has disadvantage on all attacks, checks and saving throws.
Tougher undead would drain more HD per hit, ramping up faster. The binary version means higher level characters need to be drained more before they are penalized. The penalties also mean that being drained more makes it harder to recover HD from Con saving throws while resting.
RangerWickett
Legend
I like "you lose a hit die, I heal that much, and you take that much in damage." It's harsh, you hate losing hit dice, but it isn't an instant "touch of death."
Maybe we should have some sort of 'touch of death,' but make it harder to pull off. The wight might have a +5 attack bonus with his longsword, but to energy drain you, he has to first grab you (standard action, opposed strength) and then on his next turn he can suck your life out through your mouth (you cough it out in a glowing wisp and he inhales it) or heart (he drains it through his fingers). You can escape by succeeding a strength check, and you get a bonus based on how much damage the wight takes.
If you fail, he sucks your life force out. Whatever that means.
Mechanically, you'd want wights to be very strong, so they could easily grab and be hard to escape, and have a high AC, so it's hard for your allies to knock it away from you.
Maybe we should have some sort of 'touch of death,' but make it harder to pull off. The wight might have a +5 attack bonus with his longsword, but to energy drain you, he has to first grab you (standard action, opposed strength) and then on his next turn he can suck your life out through your mouth (you cough it out in a glowing wisp and he inhales it) or heart (he drains it through his fingers). You can escape by succeeding a strength check, and you get a bonus based on how much damage the wight takes.
If you fail, he sucks your life force out. Whatever that means.
Mechanically, you'd want wights to be very strong, so they could easily grab and be hard to escape, and have a high AC, so it's hard for your allies to knock it away from you.
Sadrik
First Post
What about using the playtest one version but rather than -3 to your max hit points you instead lose -3 to your negative hit point possibility. When your negative hit point possibility reaches zero you animate or whatever other negative effect there is. It's sort of a back door way of doing a stat drain without actually doing one. Even high-level character's with level plus con score it is still dangerous with -3 to max negative hit points. And the monsters that deal two negative levels could be -6. Pretty nasty.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
I like level draining personally, not from the book keeping angle, that can be a big headache, but from game play POV, both thematically and metagamie, it's the ultimate horror for players and PCs alike, they don't want to lose their precious levels so encountering those monsters always kep the players on their toes.
The late edition versions where best described as meh...
Warder
The late edition versions where best described as meh...
Warder
The Shadow
Hero
Forgot to mention this, but I love the idea of an actual ritual to spawn a new undead, rather than it being automatic. That way, you could plot to go back and seize your friend's body before the ritual was complete!
Though anyone drained to death should be a bit of a peril. Perhaps they should have a certain random chance of coming back as something, unless you cast Bless on them or the like.
Remathilis said:
Possibly. I hope not too many, as it might start to get hard to remember which is which! I agree that shadows, in particular, should stand out from the rest, though. They've always felt different.
SLOTHmaster said:
Hm, that also has some potential, as it would mean high-level characters aren't nearly as insulated from harm as they usually are. (Though the Survivor specialty will still help!)
Scipio202 said:
Good idea! I find this version to be the more elegant, and I'm adding it to the new writeup.
RangerWickett said:
Oh wow. Your description is all kinds of suggestive. I like it!
It definitely should be something suitably horrible, given that the wight had to work for it. Death on a failed save, and something still pretty bad on a successful one?
I realize save-or-die has a bad rap these days, but I think it might be justified in this case.
Sadrik
First Post
I hate to quote myself but this has some real merit. There are a lot of effects that could be handled by this mechanic. I think things like sneak attack could do this in addition to their damage. I think falling and suffocation could be handled by this mechanic as well. There is a real need for this game to have something where it makes damage more realistic and less about skill. Hit points only go so far as there are a lot of situations where hit points don't make sense falling for example. I really like the idea of back dooring con damage without actually having.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
CON drain would be fine, but I think I'm OK with the "negative level" concept: each successful hit (with failed save) deals a negative level which has the effect of -1 to all rolls and checks until cured or it wears off. Accumulate negative levels greater than your character level and you die and rise again as a wight (so 2 negative levels kill a 1st level character, 2for a 2d, and so on). Alternatively, a less deadly approach would be that if the character dies with negative levels still in effect, it rises again as a wight.
slobster
Hero
To sythesize what you guys have already said, what sounds best to me is a version of the hit dice drain. Energy drain removes one of the target's hit dice. You roll that hit dice, and the target's max HP is reduced by the amount rolled. The attacking creature then recovers an equal amount of HP.
An energy drain attack that hits a target with no more hit dice left inflicts the unconscious condition for the rest of the combat (save resists). Some undead might instead stun or paralyze or even kill the target on a failed save. On a successful save, the target takes disadvantage on attacks and checks for 1 round.
Any character reduced to below 0 max hp is unconscious, stunned or whatever for the encounter as though they failed the save.
It seems a little clunky, but it's easier than negative levels and pretty flavorful. Any thoughts on how to streamline it?
EDIT
So basically you'd be inventing a new status effect, energy drained.
Energy Drained X: A character who is energy drained has his maximum hp lowered by the amount X. A character whose maximum hp is taken below 0 by energy drain is rendered unconscious until the his energy drain is healed. A character may spend and roll a hit dice to reduce the amount of his energy drain by the number rolled, though hit dice spent in this fashion do not also heal that character.
An energy drain attack that hits a target with no more hit dice left inflicts the unconscious condition for the rest of the combat (save resists). Some undead might instead stun or paralyze or even kill the target on a failed save. On a successful save, the target takes disadvantage on attacks and checks for 1 round.
Any character reduced to below 0 max hp is unconscious, stunned or whatever for the encounter as though they failed the save.
It seems a little clunky, but it's easier than negative levels and pretty flavorful. Any thoughts on how to streamline it?
EDIT
So basically you'd be inventing a new status effect, energy drained.
Energy Drained X: A character who is energy drained has his maximum hp lowered by the amount X. A character whose maximum hp is taken below 0 by energy drain is rendered unconscious until the his energy drain is healed. A character may spend and roll a hit dice to reduce the amount of his energy drain by the number rolled, though hit dice spent in this fashion do not also heal that character.
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Some interesting ideas here. One more to consider might be to leverage the existing death mechanic for the basic effect, with optional effects on a per-monster basis, such as additional damage on a failed death save, etc.
The basic Energy Drain would be a condition that causes a creature to be dying regardless of its current hit points. Something like
Energy Drain: You are dying even if you have positive hit points. This condition is removed by making enough successful death saves to stabilize.
That gives Energy Drain some heft in an encounter, and I like the relentlessly lethal flavor. If a wight hits you, you start dying because that is what wights do. No ifs, ands, or buts.
One could also emulate "negative levels" by letting one trade in hit dice to give a bonus on the death saves, while taking a longer term penalty. Besides the homage to a traditional effect it also gives the player a bit of agency with respect to negative levels, and with small modifications would work well even if the campaign doesn't use hit dice. (And thinking about it, I think it might make a fun addition to the basic death and dying rules). For example, maybe a character could spend 1 hit die to gain advantage on a death check, but would take a cumulative -1 penalty to all other checks, a penalty which decreases by 1 per long rest. That unifies negative levels with more general "near death" events, leaving the final decision in the player's hands, but making its use more common with Energy Drain because the volume of death checks and their damage will typically be higher. Giving the player the choice could make negative levels more widely palatable, since they would come as part of a benefit rather than an unavoidable penalty. It also lets the player make an informed and meaningful decision, in the moment, with respect to campaign pacing.
The wight attack might look like
Hit: The wight deals 2d6 + 2 necrotic damage, healing the wight for half damage and inflicting Energy Drain. This attack also cumulatively increases the DC of death saves by 1 (+10 max) until Energy Drain is removed. A creature slain while suffering this effect rises 24 hours later as a zombie under the wight's command.
A "soul feeder" attack might look like
Hit: The soul feeder deals 1d6+4 necrotic damage, healing the soul feeder an equal amount, and causes Energy Drain with +2d6 damage on a failed death save. Until Energy Drain is removed the last soul feeder to attack the target gains hit points equal to what the target loses every time it fails a death save.
The energy drain spell might look like
Effect: The target takes 6d6 necrotic damage and suffers Energy Drain with +5d6 damage on the first failed death save, increasing by another 2d6 for every additional failure. The DC of death saves while under this spell is equal to the caster's spell DC.
The basic Energy Drain would be a condition that causes a creature to be dying regardless of its current hit points. Something like
Energy Drain: You are dying even if you have positive hit points. This condition is removed by making enough successful death saves to stabilize.
That gives Energy Drain some heft in an encounter, and I like the relentlessly lethal flavor. If a wight hits you, you start dying because that is what wights do. No ifs, ands, or buts.
One could also emulate "negative levels" by letting one trade in hit dice to give a bonus on the death saves, while taking a longer term penalty. Besides the homage to a traditional effect it also gives the player a bit of agency with respect to negative levels, and with small modifications would work well even if the campaign doesn't use hit dice. (And thinking about it, I think it might make a fun addition to the basic death and dying rules). For example, maybe a character could spend 1 hit die to gain advantage on a death check, but would take a cumulative -1 penalty to all other checks, a penalty which decreases by 1 per long rest. That unifies negative levels with more general "near death" events, leaving the final decision in the player's hands, but making its use more common with Energy Drain because the volume of death checks and their damage will typically be higher. Giving the player the choice could make negative levels more widely palatable, since they would come as part of a benefit rather than an unavoidable penalty. It also lets the player make an informed and meaningful decision, in the moment, with respect to campaign pacing.
The wight attack might look like
Hit: The wight deals 2d6 + 2 necrotic damage, healing the wight for half damage and inflicting Energy Drain. This attack also cumulatively increases the DC of death saves by 1 (+10 max) until Energy Drain is removed. A creature slain while suffering this effect rises 24 hours later as a zombie under the wight's command.
A "soul feeder" attack might look like
Hit: The soul feeder deals 1d6+4 necrotic damage, healing the soul feeder an equal amount, and causes Energy Drain with +2d6 damage on a failed death save. Until Energy Drain is removed the last soul feeder to attack the target gains hit points equal to what the target loses every time it fails a death save.
The energy drain spell might look like
Effect: The target takes 6d6 necrotic damage and suffers Energy Drain with +5d6 damage on the first failed death save, increasing by another 2d6 for every additional failure. The DC of death saves while under this spell is equal to the caster's spell DC.
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