Energy Missile

[Kat']

but your magic missile isn't doing 18d6 damage either. no one plays a psionic character that doesn't go nova if they can get away with it.

we've had an enemy wilder one-shot our healer in the surprise round, then kill another character each round, with a first level, no save power. except for the psion/wizard, who was built specifically to be a damage sponge, but probably with a little bit of rules-bending in there somewhere, he survived an assault with like 20 hit points to spare. i think 3 of us went down before we killed him, in the third round of combat. :\

Energy missile...
1- ... is a Kineticist-only power. Non-kineticists must spend a feat to learn it
2- ... allows a save (Mettle or Evasion, anyone?)
3- ... deals energy damage (Protection from Energy, resistances, immunities... meh)

Plus, an energy missile dealing 18d6 damage has been manifested using 18 PP, making it in fact the equivalent of a level 9 power. In comparison, Magic missile damage stacks without increasing the level of the spell slot used to cast it.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Your level 14 cleric died to about 63 damage?????

no, it was an actual Healer, though I think the level is about right. The DM liked throwing amped-up combos at us all the time. The spell was crystal shard, and some metapsionic stuff and Wild Surge thrown into it. Maybe something about double actions, something like that, I don't pay much attention to psionics when I make characters. The surprise round volley did well over 200dmg. The healer was built to be nearly impossible to kill, the players knew the DM's combat style, all the characters were built to withstand punishment. the NPC won initiative, somewhere around 20 higher than the arcane casters tossing Nerve Skitter, and killed a frontline fighter-type outright. the wizard/psion had Share Pain, Vigor, and a bunch more on him and his psicrystal, and he survived just barely, but his crystal died. I think he was counting his DR twice though, once for him and once for his psicrystal.
The whole campaign was an arms race. Half of everyone's spell selection was devoted to 'how can I get away from a losing fight?'

 

[eamon]

Energy missile...
1- ... is a Kineticist-only power. Non-kineticists must spend a feat to learn it
2- ... allows a save (Mettle or Evasion, anyone?)
3- ... deals energy damage (Protection from Energy, resistances, immunities... meh)

Plus, an energy missile dealing 18d6 damage has been manifested using 18 PP, making it in fact the equivalent of a level 9 power. In comparison, Magic missile damage stacks without increasing the level of the spell slot used to cast it.

Perhaps a better comparison is orb of acid, which is a fourth level spell, has no save nor spell resistance vs. 15d6 damage. How exactly is energy missile a problem? Oh, and it also has a secondary effect rendering someone sickened (or dazed, or blinded, or entangled depending on the orb's energy type) if they fail a fort-save.

Plain old scorching ray does 12d6 damage with no save (but does allow SR), and it's just second level.

 

[amethal]

no one plays a psionic character that doesn't go nova if they can get away with it.

My binder is going to have 36 power points (21 from one vestige and 15 from another).

Going nova is most definitely my intention. Since I'm 18th level the 36 pp is just enough to do two maxed energy missiles (or astral constructs, if I think that's more appropriate in the circumstances).

 

[Bacris]

but your magic missile isn't doing 18d6 damage either. no one plays a psionic character that doesn't go nova if they can get away with it.

I never nova as a manifester - it pretty much never fits my character's personality, so it would be metagaming to nova.

 

[akbearfoot]

IMO it's counterintuitive to say energy missile is fine as originally printed....it scales twice as good as any other power printed in the book. And also....even if you didn't pay for the book with the stealth errata, the rules are still pretty clear that it's been changed. Anyone who read this thread should be well aware of the change by now.

Why is resist elements listed as a defense against this? It's not (fire missile) it's 'You just cast resist fire, so Imma cast Cold missile' Or 'You're a red colored dragon, so I'm gonna hit you with a cold missile that even you cant save against' So this seems closer to being considered untyped damage, unless there is noone in your party with appropriate knowledge checks to say 'Hey its a demon, they are vulnerable to XXX' as a free action right before you blast him.


Also, isn't comparing things to the Orb spells to test if they are broken a little funny? I mean there are hundreds of pages of online content with people saying the orb spells are broken, and if those spells were 2 levels higher than they are now people would STILL take them. How many spells are that good? Not even the other best spell in the game, magic missile! Shouldn't you compare it to something like Ice Storm? (pauses for laughter) Ok, maybe not. How about a 5th level spell instead? Lets go with Cone of Cold? (laughs some more). How about an 8th level spell like Polar Ray? (laughs even harder)


That said...if you're playing a high level psionic character and you only have a +3 primary stat then something seems strange does it not? I am not personally familiar with the binder class.

How exactly does magic missile stack with itself? 5d4 + 5 no save...mmmk

Scorching ray doesen't do 12d6 damage...It's 3 attack rolls, with 3 very possible chances to miss or rarely crit, that do 4d6 of the most commonly resisted energy type. Humongous difference. Archmage abilities set asside.

All that without taking into account things like empower power, or overchannel, or whatever other combos you can think of.

 

[Kat']

You're missing the math behind it, I believe... Whatever your caster level is, Scorching Ray is a level 2 spell. Sou if your CL is high enough, you deal more damage, STILL at the cost of a 2nd level spell slot.

Psionics have to PAY for higher effects. So an Energy Missile dealing 17d6 damage costs 17 PP and uses up psychic energy as a 9th level power. And this is the reason why psionic powers are NEVER overpowered. Their effect may be higher than a spell's, but the cost is in proportion. And anybody having ever played a psionic char knows how fast PP disappear.

 

[Bacris]

IMO it's counterintuitive to say energy missile is fine as originally printed....it scales twice as good as any other power printed in the book.

Incorrect. It has the same scaling as Energy Stun.

 

[Nifft]

but your magic missile isn't doing 18d6 damage either.

Paying for a 9th level effect = getting a 9th level effect.

no one plays a psionic character that doesn't go nova if they can get away with it.

Does anyone play a Wizard who doesn't abuse gate and shapechange?

we've had an enemy wilder one-shot our healer in the surprise round, then kill another character each round, with a first level, no save power.

There are spells to do this sort of thing, too. More of them in fact.

Cheers, -- N

 

[shilsen]

Does anyone play a Wizard who doesn't abuse gate and shapechange?

*raises hand*

Only time I ever got to play a wizard able to cast those was in a one-off, and I asked the DM to ban those spells because they were too easily abuseable.