Energy Substitution (Sonic)

[Evilhalfling]

I have used Slaaddi once and their have been whole threads dedicated to how to distinguish Violent CN from CE. Mine started a fight for caprecious reasons then after a while stopped to sit around and pout. The PCs gave the gaint frogs a wide berth after that.

Come to think of it there actually was a Bard in that party, but he just inspired courage instead of making actual sonic attacks.

In CoSQ 3.0 2 of 3 acane casters took sonic energy substitution. It was more about power than the flavor of the other substitutions.

 

[Nail]

IMC, I've just given Sonic resistance to many creatures that have other elemental resistances (Chaotic and Tanar'ri sub-types, for example). Simple enough.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I'm glad they removed sonic; it was simply too good (and obvious!) a choice.

 

[the Jester]

I'm glad they removed sonic; it was simply too good (and obvious!) a choice.

I agree.

But then, I have an epic pc with Energy Sub (sonic) and quickly realized that it's da bomb for overcoming energy resistant monsters. There are more sonic resistant and immune creatures in MM3, btw.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm glad they removed sonic; it was simply too good (and obvious!) a choice.

Unfortunately, as someone was bound to point out eventually, they left it in for Psionics.

 

[Benben]

Unfortunately, as someone was bound to point out eventually, they left it in for Psionics.

Well technically the don't have a feat for this in the XPH. The various energy missile/ray/bolt/etc. powers can switch.

Cold: +1 damage per die. Fortitude save for half.
Electricity: +2 to the save DC, and +2 to manifester level checks to overcome Power Resistance.
Fire: +1 Point of damage per die.
Sonic -1 point of damage per die and ignores an object's hardness.

Interesting I hadn't noticed that psions are barred from switching to acid damage. This makes perfect sense as acid damage should generraly belong to metacreativity. Anyway, this still leaves sonic as a poor choice in most situations since it does less damage than the other powers and creatures with cold, fire, and electiracl resistant are uncommon.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I'm glad to see that sonic is no longer a valid energy type.

I would allow energy substitution (sonic) if the damage from the spell was reduced to the next smaller die (d8's become d6's, d6's become d4's, etc.). I think that would make it fair.

I would go further and rewrite all the damaging spells in the spirit of the XPH energy spells. That way different types of energy have distinct advantages and disadvantages. One result would be that Sonic Ball would do d4s instead of d6s.

(I would also rewrite all damaging conjurations to follow a different scaling entirely...)

 

[KarinsDad]

Well technically the don't have a feat for this in the XPH. The various energy missile/ray/bolt/etc. powers can switch.

Cold: +1 damage per die. Fortitude save for half.
Electricity: +2 to the save DC, and +2 to manifester level checks to overcome Power Resistance.
Fire: +1 Point of damage per die.
Sonic -1 point of damage per die and ignores an object's hardness.

Interesting I hadn't noticed that psions are barred from switching to acid damage. This makes perfect sense as acid damage should generraly belong to metacreativity. Anyway, this still leaves sonic as a poor choice in most situations since it does less damage than the other powers and creatures with cold, fire, and electiracl resistant are uncommon.

Not when you are fighting demons. They all (or at least most of them) have the four main resistance/immunities:

Immunity to electricity, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10.


And devils are only vulnerable to electricity:

Immunity to fire, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10.


Course, you have to know this to know this (Knowledge checks at a minimum). We have a Warmage and two Psions PCs in our group and Sonic is the attack of choice against most monsters because it is almost sure to have no resistance.

What the other psionic player does not yet realize is that our PCs are getting to the level where it is still better to do Cold or Fire damage to most creatures (e.g. 6D6+6 (or greater) versus resist 10 does more damage than 6D6-6 against resist 0).

 

[Rackhir]

There actually are a couple of surprisingly simple and basic counters to sonic substituted attacks.

Silence spell anyone?

Bards can counter sing such an attack. This is specifically noted for creatures like the
DESTRACHAN.

 

[DrSpunj]

IMC, I've just given Sonic resistance to many creatures that have other elemental resistances (Chaotic and Tanar'ri sub-types, for example). Simple enough.

Which happened shortly after our Wizard picked up Energy Substitution [Sonic] (we were playing 3.0 at the time).

To be fair, Nail probably made those changes long before we encountered any of these creatures, but that was the perception we had from our side of the DM's screen.

Aside/Hijack: How does everyone handle using something like Knowledge (Planes) to determine what a specific resistances, immunities and vulnerabilities a given creature type/sub-type has?

DC 20? 25? 30? gets you a partial list? "They're from the burning hells, but don't mind cold either!" Or maybe you get to ask the DM if they have any resistances/vulnerabilities to a particular form of Energy like Acid?

Obviously you may not know much if you've done no research and haven't interacted with any, but I know this came up in our game on several occasions after we'd fought several Anarchic and/or Tanar'ri creatures, etc. I kept wanting the Wizard's player to clue in more before throwing/memorizing a Fireball vs Thunderball (yes, we love that name! ) or a Lightning Bolt or something since it didn't really do much the last time we encountered a similar creature!

I know there's a nifty spell in one of the Complete books called something like Know Vulnerabilities or Defenses or something, but IIRC it's a 5th spell which means it isn't available to us.

Thanks.

DrSpunj