D&D 5E (2014) Enforcing theme/structure by saying NO to players

There's always the chance that it's the exception that shines the strongest light on the campaign themes, but it's a slim one.

You can't blame players for immediately seeing the interest in being the one drow that can walk in daylight, or the one gully dwarf with enough intelligence to remember his own name, or whatever. It's not necessarily that they want to have the spotlight on them, it's just that as soon as you hear you can't play a draconian, your brain immediately furnishes you with sixteen cool ways to be a draconian. It's kind of inevitable, and even more so if you're unfamiliar with the setting or its tropes.

Having said that, a problem player is a problem player. You sound like you have one.
 

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I have two, perhaps divergent, answers to the stated question.

The first answer is: If your players explicitly sign on for playing a well-known, well-defined setting, and then get pissy about that setting not including stuff they want, the problem is in their court for agreeing to play a thing that didn't include their desired parts. What I mean by this is, it's foolish to get upset that there are no Dwarves in Tamriel, when the DM was very specific that this would be a canon-faithful Elder Scrolls game, and you agreed to play in it. I see this as being no different from the DM handing out, say, a double-sided sheet of "campaign info" laying out what options are present/missing, and a player saying, "Yes, I agree to abide by all of these restrictions," only to turn around a minute later and complain, "Why can't I refuse to abide by these restrictions???" Because you said you would, that's why.

However. I have another response, and it's one that I'm not sure a lot of people will like.

I don't think most DMs do this with their custom campaigns. I don't think they decide on a setting with specific elements that are, and aren't, present, and furthermore that they fail to make sure the players are informed about this in advance. I think it's a lot more like, "I want to run a D&D game, who's interested? It'll be full of adventure and danger and phat lewts!" The player, in that case, is not making at all the same kind of commitment discussed in the previous paragraph. All they're committing to is "playing a game." And when the DM leaves things up in the air like that, without specifying what is allowed and what is not, it is their fault if there's a later conflict of desire or intent.

Unfortunately, I find that many DMs who make custom campaign worlds, or who claim to want to let the world develop organically, pack in a huge number of preconceived notions about what "is" and "isn't" "a D&D game," such that they feel that they were being highly specific when they weren't. This can sometimes result in the appearance of being almost...gleeful about denying options to players that the players thought were perfectly acceptable. Dragonborn and Tieflings are especially vulnerable to that, but it can happen to almost anything. I'm a huge, huge believer in accepting and supporting genuine excitement and investment whenever and wherever it appears--as long as it isn't exploitative or clearly attention-seeking. Deciding that swordmages/EKs/Warlocks/Dragonborn don't exist in your universe because they're dumb and I'm the DM so what I say goes is, IMO, terrible practice. It teaches players to avoid getting excited about anything, lest the DM banhammer fall--even if that's not the intent.

Instead of coming down hard and arbitrarily, talk it out, give some kind of answer beyond "because I said so," have an adult and positive conversation. "I'm not a fan of the 'fighter-mage' character--the discipline required by each part always seemed too difficult for one person to master both. What is it you like about 'swordmages'? Maybe we can find a way to please both of us. Perhaps you just like having some spells and doing magic damage when you hit with a weapon? We could tweak the Paladin--cobble together a custom 'witch-hunter' oath--if you like that idea." If the player's desire is in fact exploitative or attention-seeking, such a conversation will almost surely reveal it (especially the latter), and if it's not, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised by the interesting things that can come from talking it out. Lots of DMs say they like to be surprised by the results of the dice--I just wish more of them were open to being surprised by the way their players can shape the campaign world.

When you directly tell your players, "I want to play a centaur-only campaign," and they agree? It's their problem if they want to play something else, and they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place--they can either accept it or leave. When you only say, "I want to run D&D," and people start choosing classes and/or races that you don't like? It's your problem. You can either accept that the game will be different from your expectations because you didn't communicate them clearly, or you can try to negotiate with the players to find a compromise that fits the vision you hadn't articulated.
 
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I have two, perhaps divergent, answers to the stated question.

The first answer is: If your players explicitly sign on for playing a well-known, well-defined setting, and then get pissy about that setting not including stuff they want, the problem is in their court for agreeing to play a thing that didn't include their desired parts. What I mean by this is, it's foolish to get upset that there are no Dwarves in Tamriel, when the DM was very specific that this would be a canon-faithful Elder Scrolls game, and you agreed to play in it. I see this as being no different from the DM handing out, say, a double-sided sheet of "campaign info" laying out what options are present/missing, and a player saying, "Yes, I agree to abide by all of these restrictions," only to turn around a minute later and complain, "Why can't I refuse to abide by these restrictions???" Because you said you would, that's why.

However. I have another response, and it's one that I'm not sure a lot of people will like.

I don't think most DMs do this with their custom campaigns. I don't think they decide on a setting with specific elements that are, and aren't, present, and furthermore that they fail to make sure the players are informed about this in advance. I think it's a lot more like, "I want to run a D&D game, who's interested? It'll be full of adventure and danger and phat lewts!" The player, in that case, is not making at all the same kind of commitment discussed in the previous paragraph. All they're committing to is "playing a game." And when the DM leaves things up in the air like that, without specifying what is allowed and what is not, it is their fault if there's a later conflict of desire or intent.

Unfortunately, I find that many DMs who make custom campaign worlds, or who claim to want to let the world develop organically, pack in a huge number of preconceived notions about what "is" and "isn't" "a D&D game," such that they feel that they were being highly specific when they weren't. This can sometimes result in the appearance of being almost...gleeful about denying options to players that the players thought were perfectly acceptable. Dragonborn and Tieflings are especially vulnerable to that, but it can happen to almost anything. I'm a huge, huge believer in accepting and supporting genuine excitement and investment whenever and wherever it appears--as long as it isn't exploitative or clearly attention-seeking. Deciding that swordmages/EKs/Warlocks/Dragonborn don't exist in your universe because they're dumb and I'm the DM so what I say goes is, IMO, terrible practice. It teaches players to avoid getting excited about anything, lest the DM banhammer fall--even if that's not the intent.

Instead of coming down hard and arbitrarily, talk it out, give some kind of answer beyond "because I said so," have an adult and positive conversation. "I'm not a fan of the 'fighter-mage' character--the discipline required by each part always seemed too difficult for one person to master both. What is it you like about 'swordmages'? Maybe we can find a way to please both of us. Perhaps you just like having some spells and doing magic damage when you hit with a weapon? We could tweak the Paladin--cobble together a custom 'witch-hunter' oath--if you like that idea." If the player's desire is in fact exploitative or attention-seeking, such a conversation will almost surely reveal it (especially the latter), and if it's not, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised by the interesting things that can come from talking it out. Lots of DMs say they like to be surprised by the results of the dice--I just wish more of them were open to being surprised by the way their players can shape the campaign world.

When you directly tell your players, "I want to play a centaur-only campaign," and they agree? It's their problem if they want to play something else, and they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place--they can either accept it or leave. When you only say, "I want to run D&D," and people start choosing classes and/or races that you don't like? It's your problem. You can either accept that the game will be different from your expectations because you didn't communicate them clearly, or you can try to negotiate with the players to find a compromise that fits the vision you hadn't articulated.

Because I said so is the DMs right if not duty. Only 4 races are core as such in 5E. I would ask why any of those 4 races were banned but if they banned Gnomes or Dragonborn or whatever so be it.

If I banned races introduced after 2000 I would just say I'm after a Gygaxian theme because I said so.
 

As it applies against standard races, classes, feats, spells, etc. in the PHB for any edition, my experience is the best thing that works for both sides of the table is a willingness to compromise. And with 5E being very simple and abstract, I would not find it hard to re-skin certain concepts like classes or races, or just make them the one off exception. But as part of that the player has to take on part of that effort to ensure they fit the concept as best as possible to the campaign. But if either sides starts to dig in their heels, then it just becomes a chest pounding contest. At that point the player/DM relationship is not the right fit for any campaign the two may participate in.

What also makes it easy to run a more strict campaign is an abundance of players, at that point the DM does not need to compromise. However, depending on how strict the DM is out of the gate, he or she may run into problems later.

I find it is usually an issues with mindsets and opinions when playing the game, and those that are more rigid, are more likely to run into problems.
 

Because I said so is the DMs right if not duty.
No, it is not the DM's "right" nor "duty" to abuse the perceived authority provided by the position and say what basically equates to "You aren't allowed to like what I don't like."

Yes, there are (weak, in my opinion) reasons to prohibit certain options the players might prefer to have - but none of them are "because I can, and I did."

If I banned races introduced after 2000 I would just say I'm after a Gygaxian theme because I said so.
And I would remind you, before declaring "Gygaxian theme", to check the philosophy actually presented by Gygax which involved more than a few spoonfuls of letting the players have characters which they will be happy to play - which is different from acting as if your players should be happy just because you have allowed them to play at all.
 

No, it is not the DM's "right" nor "duty" to abuse the perceived authority provided by the position and say what basically equates to "You aren't allowed to like what I don't like."

Yes, there are (weak, in my opinion) reasons to prohibit certain options the players might prefer to have - but none of them are "because I can, and I did."

And I would remind you, before declaring "Gygaxian theme", to check the philosophy actually presented by Gygax which involved more than a few spoonfuls of letting the players have characters which they will be happy to play - which is different from acting as if your players should be happy just because you have allowed them to play at all.

Perhaps I should have said AD&D theme then. There are only 4 core races and classes in 5E everything else is optional and the DMG even says you can add in racial restrictions and alignment restrictions if you want to. I have thought about AD&D alignment restrictions being added back in. It would actually help the Ranger out.

Our current DM allows anything and everything. I'm the only human in the party and I'm a Paladin (LG as well of course). If a player doesn't like my house rules I invite them to run their own game and I will happily abide by any and all decisions they make in terms of class and races allowed. Current DMs allow anything including Aarakokra (spelling?).

I do not allow Gnomes and Half Orcs in Darksun and I do not want to explain why because I do not want the players to have any knowledge of the Cleansing Wars (ancient genocide). You can't be those races because they do not exist is all they need to know.
 
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At our table, when we alter/remove races and classes for a specific world setting, we have a player that complains that everything isn't available, and doesn't like restrictions. I am not a fan of shoehorning something in just because a player wants to play it, and neither is the other DM at our table. For example, we've played in Dragonlance and there have been disputes over the restriction on spell schools/Tower of High Sorcery test at 3rd level, and what races are available (no Tieflings, Dragonborn or Halflings, but Kender and Minotaurs are playable.) This comes up as well when that player is the odd person out when it comes to alignment.

Thematic integrity is paramount.

Obviously you can also play a "kitchen-sink" campaign, where the theme is essentially "diversity", but we're essentially talking about everything but a kitchen-sink here.

If a player doesn't like the restrictions implied by a certain fantasy setting or campaign theme, I make no compromises, and I just tell him that in the next campaign I will choose a different setting/theme where his character concept will be not just tolerated but actually important. Or I might even suggest we start a parallel campaign for that.

For me it's essential that the players adapt or find another game. IMXP players who insist on playing just one character concept at all costs, are the first players to get bored by their own choice during the game.

Oh and by the way, I don't need to explain why something doesn't exist in a certain fantasy setting. Do you need to explain why there are no Elves in the real world?
 

Oh and by the way, I don't need to explain why something doesn't exist in a certain fantasy setting. Do you need to explain why there are no Elves in the real world?
No, those aren't as similar as you think they are.

A person coming to your fantasy setting asking "Why aren't there elves?" is inviting you to answer with anything from "because there is no such thing as an elf according to the history of the world" to "because they all left" or something in between - the question invites you to actually provide some insight on the world and establish a bit of its flavor.

It is different from, but often related to the other question, which is "why can't I play an elf in your campaign?" and even that is a perfectly valid question since, even if the world doesn't have a historical establishment of elves, there are plenty of ways to explain that one (or even a few, or a lot of) elf PC, and the player is more likely to accept a well-reasoned explanation of why you haven't allowed for one of those than they are to accept that there are no elves because you personally don't want there to be even if a player happens to really want to play an elf of some sort.
 

Since my campaign is home brewed, and I've run it for 2E, 3E, 3.5, Pathfinder, Next playtest, and 5E; and I explain my game is based on my own version of whetever are the current rules, I've only had one seriously disgruntled player. This in spite of some very serious restrictions.
  • No monks
  • No psionics
  • No warlocks
  • No drow
  • No dragonborn
  • No tieflings
  • No eladrin
  • No warforged
  • 25 point-buy at start
  • No class at start
  • Start play at 0 level
  • Proficient in no weapons
  • Start in captivity as a slave
  • At zero level, all stats are temporarily capped at 12+racial mods
  • All class abilities and class skills must be learned through played experience.
  • My campaign is not Hack & Slash, but rather more Think & Sweat
The one dispute was the player wanted to roll his own stats. I finally agreed, but he would have to roll 3d6 seven times, take the best six rolls, with no take-backs.
I've generally had a waiting list of players to get into my game, and most of my current players have played in previous incarnations of my campaign, 2 have been in all of them.

Sounds like a pretty hardcore game. Can you please elaborate as I'm curious. I've always wanted to run a good quality slave game myself, where players might eventually make it to freedom, but how do you set a game like that up and what do they do to work towards something better?
 

No, those aren't as similar as you think they are.

A person coming to your fantasy setting asking "Why aren't there elves?" is inviting you to answer with anything from "because there is no such thing as an elf according to the history of the world" to "because they all left" or something in between - the question invites you to actually provide some insight on the world and establish a bit of its flavor.

What's your point? Answering "because there is no such thing as an elf" is pretty much what I mean when I say that there is no need for explanation.

When I said "exist" I meant as a concept, not necessarily that they are all still alive. If elves existed and left or became extinct or something else, it's another case, and it can be interesting to mention this. What I meant is simply that if in a setting there aren't and there has never been an elf, I don't need to explain why, because there is no reason, they just don't exist and never had.

A separate matter is if something exists but is not player's choice. In that case probably the main reason is once again the theme chosen. I know there can be also a mechanical reason, especially if the DM just wants to ban something that she believes to be overpowered, although I don't remember to have ever banned something because of that.
 

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