Enhanced Stats and Spells

[pyk]

and where does it say that having your casting stat go down kills spells memorized? both in 3.0 and 3.5 if anyone knows the references

Page 10, 3.0 PHB: When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that score change accordingly.

Meaning, if your attribute goes down, you no longer have the extra spell slot to have a spell prepared in, so you lose the prepared spell.

This would apply to all bonuses to attributes, as well, except as noted in the bonus description.

 

[Scion]

Page 10, 3.0 PHB: When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that score change accordingly.

Meaning, if your attribute goes down, you no longer have the extra spell slot to have a spell prepared in, so you lose the prepared spell.

This would apply to all bonuses to attributes, as well, except as noted in the bonus description.

That doesnt necissarily follow. At the time the bonus spells were gained your stat is X, later on you get damaged, so you couldnt gain them now if you tried, but that doesnt mean that you 'lose' them as they are already there. Just like, if my int changes I dont go back and change skill points. But nicely int tells me I dont do that, it doesnt seem to say anywhere if stat damage makes you lose bonus spells.

making feeblemind and touch of idiocy even 'more' powerful than they already are seems like a bad thing to me anyway

 

[AGGEMAM]

Spells that improve a spell casting ability does not give you extra bonus spells.

Eagle’s Splendor ... Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase.

Owl’s Wisdom ... Clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers (and other Wisdom-based spellcasters) who receive owl’s wisdom do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Wisdom, but the save DCs for their spells increase.

Fox’s Cunning ... Wizards (and other spellcasters who rely on Intelligence) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Intelligence, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase. This spell doesn’t grant extra skill points.

 

[pyk]

That doesnt necissarily follow. At the time the bonus spells were gained your stat is X, later on you get damaged, so you couldnt gain them now if you tried, but that doesnt mean that you 'lose' them as they are already there. Just like, if my int changes I dont go back and change skill points. But nicely int tells me I dont do that, it doesnt seem to say anywhere if stat damage makes you lose bonus spells.

making feeblemind and touch of idiocy even 'more' powerful than they already are seems like a bad thing to me anyway

Do ability enhancing items (such as the headband of
intellect, cloak of charisma, and periapt of wisdom) grant
bonus spells to the appropriate spellcasters? The spells
these items are based on would seem to prohibit it, but the
only things specifically addressed in the item descriptions
are skill points.

Yes, you can get extra bonus spells if you have an item that
increases the ability score that governs your spellcasting. To
get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting
to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations
for spellcasting. (Even characters who don?t prepare spells need
to meditate a little while at the beginning of the day; see Daily
Readying of spells under the Sorcerers and bards section of
Chapter 10 in the Player?s Handbook.)
If you lose the item, you immediately lose the bonus spell
slots the item gave you, starting with any uncast spells you
have of the appropriate levels.

It would seem the FAQ is in support of the stat going down, the prepared spells get lost.

 

[pyk]

Spells that improve a spell casting ability does not give you extra bonus spells.

Which shows, by the fact it is included in the description of the spells, that this is an exception to the rule, not changing the rule of losing prepared spells because a stat goes down. It makes sense, anyway, as only 16th level and higher prepared casters and spontaneous casters of any level could make use of the extra spell slots granted by a stat boosting spell; the stat boosting spell lasts only 1 min per level, and it takes 15 min to prepare any extra spells.

So, if they DID allow for extra spells, as soon as a lesser wizard, cleric, etc. had prepared the spells, the spells would then be lost. So, since it's not fair to them, the rule get exceptioned for stat boosting spells!

If the stat boosters were extended to 10 min per level, then I could see the spells granting extra spell slots again. But it would still be far more useful for spontaneous casters than for preparers, which would be ok for that amount of time; the preparers would still have some access to them, at the levels the spells are available.

 

[Scion]

It would seem the FAQ is in support of the stat going down, the prepared spells get lost.

have a quote that is actually relevant to stat damage or penalties to the stat?

 

[pyk]

have a quote that is actually relevant to stat damage or penalties to the stat?

Ah, I see. It isn't inscribed word for word in the book, therefore it does not exist.

Well, in that case, I bow to you.

I do not concede anything, however.

 

[drnuncheon]

Sure it is:

"When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that score change accordingly."

This is the text that lets you get the bonus spell sin the first place, and it is also the text that means they go away when the ability score drops for any reason.

J

 

[Scion]

Ah, I see. It isn't inscribed word for word in the book, therefore it does not exist.

It isnt even hinted at in the book so far as I have seen, nor in the faq. It is stated in that blurb like a special property of the item, much like how the headband doesnt grant skill points. Same thing. Which does not make it a general rule.

 

[Scion]

Sure it is:

"When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that score change accordingly."

This is the text that lets you get the bonus spell sin the first place, and it is also the text that means they go away when the ability score drops for any reason.

J

doesnt necissarily follow, just like you dont lose skill points when your int drops. It states it specifically for con and hp (does change) and for int and skill points (dont change). So therefore it should state it specifically for something as important as this as well. The 'all attributes' could simply mean anything that changes due to the plus of the ability and nothing else. That would be an equally valid interpretation.

Plus, with allowing the loss of spell slots like that it just makes certain already very strong spells even stronger. Another bad thing.