ENnies 2002 - Making Decisions

[Morrus]

What I am curious about is how will the judges be selected. Are they going to be acknowledged industry people, some community luminaries (like Eric) or in-betweens like Piratecat ?

An election like last year. Publishers or their employees, artists or writers, of course, are not eligible (which rules out PC this year, unfortunately).

 

[Holden MaGroin]

What if you had a public vote and a judges vote to decide, counting the public as 70% and the judges as 30%.

This way, the "people" do get to choose their faves, but the judges also have serious input in the outcome.

Just a compromise.

-HM

 

[Master01]

I understand. But my question is: why print it out?
Some PDF products have features (like text linking) that are visible only on a PC screen and the wholeness of a PDf product could be not visible on a printed copy. Some publishers make PDFs formatted for the screen and for printing. This IS work and should be evaluated too.
The PDF is also good because it is possible to transfer it on your PC in seconds, why do not use this convenience?

 

[mearls]

What if you had a public vote and a judges vote to decide, counting the public as 70% and the judges as 30%.

This way, the "people" do get to choose their faves, but the judges also have serious input in the outcome.

Just a compromise.

-HM

The problem with that approach is the judges already have their say, in selecting the nominees. I think mixing judge votes in with the general ballot leaves both sides unhappy, unless the entire ballot uses only write-in selections.

How about this: announce Judge's Choice and Fan's Choice awards in each category. After the fans vote, simple tab the nominee that received the most votes from judges and the most votes from fans as the respective winners.

- Mearls

 

[Nikchick]

The problem with that approach is the judges already have their say, in selecting the nominees. I think mixing judge votes in with the general ballot leaves both sides unhappy, unless the entire ballot uses only write-in selections.

How about this: announce Judge's Choice and Fan's Choice awards in each category. After the fans vote, simple tab the nominee that received the most votes from judges and the most votes from fans as the respective winners.

- Mearls

Yep, I think this is a good idea.

Morrus, you're facing the same sorts of problems with the ENnies that the Origins Awards face. Mearls is correct that a hybrid award (Jury decides nominees, public votes on ultimate winner) are difficult and unpopular these days. Establishing a clearly defined procedure to separate the two types of recognition now will save you a lot of trouble in the future, imho.

As for publisher complaints, screw 'em. You heard me, screw 'em! People live to bitch. Give them something for free and they'll complain that the portions were too small. Ok, I'm intentionally overstating the case, but no matter what you choose there will be people who find that it somehow disadvantages them or their pet project.

One product per category is PERFECTLY REASONABLE. Especially with the *explosion* of companies and products for d20 out there! If people felt they were having to "guess" to match products to categories, make clearer guidelines for people to follow. But asking each company to help narrow the selections to just their best products is not unfair or unreasonable. To use an example from the Origins Awards, Steve Jackson Games are not "helped" by having 39 books listed in the same category. Having so many products listed splits their votes and they're more likely to end up with *nothing* making the final ballot. Statistically speaking, it's a bad idea. From the quality standpoint (ie the best games make the cut) listing every darn thing is unnecessary.

I'll also come forward and say that I was not disappointed AT ALL that the ENnies were voted on by the fans. Of course the field was much smaller last year, but the fact that the ENnies were fan awards was what made them so WONDERFUL! There are many things that come into play with awards, and the ENnies are a snap-shot of what was happening at *that moment in time* in the DnD/d20 community.

Take Legions of Hell, for example. It barely made the cut-off for the ENnies, and I was so enthused about the awards (and the quality of the book) I convinced Pramas that he should send copies to England by Federal Express to be considered. In the months since the ENnies, LoH has gotten lots of rave reviews and exceptionally positive feedback, but it had not penetrated the market enough to make a difference when it came time for the fan vote. Was it disappointing? Well, sure! Everyone likes to win! But do I think the ENnies are crap, or unfair, or something? No way! They captured a snapshot in time, when Legions was about to break out for us but hadn't yet. It would have been nice to know we'd won the hearts and minds of gamers the world over, but we're not sore losers and we're certainly not going to whine and stomp our feet because we didn't get our due, or something like that!

Not everyone will take that approach, of course, but it might behoove them to try it. Just because people complain doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, necessarily. Sometimes their problems are really just that: *their* problems.

So there's my donation to the conversation. Good luck sorting it all out! I'm sure you'll come to a perfectly fine solution in the end.

 

[EricNoah]

I understand. But my question is: why print it out?
Some PDF products have features (like text linking) that are visible only on a PC screen and the wholeness of a PDf product could be not visible on a printed copy. Some publishers make PDFs formatted for the screen and for printing. This IS work and should be evaluated too.
The PDF is also good because it is possible to transfer it on your PC in seconds, why do not use this convenience?

I don't know about others, but I personally would not be able to sit down and really read a PDF product on a computer screen and give it the attention it deserves. If the same product were printed (as we did last year) then I can have it at my kitchen table, and put it in piles with the other stuff and treat it equally.

You're right though -- if the PDF has some special feature that can only be done on computer we should evaluate that aspect as well.

We'll figure something out -- maybe someone generous will offer to foot the bill for printing out PDFs or something if a publisher isn't able to provide that for some reason.

 

[RoguePlayingGames]

There is a big problem with this. The judges are all volunteers. They don't get paid for this, and it is unfair to expect them to print out hundreds of pages of documents so that they can review them all. Ink costs alone could mean that they are shelling out a couple of hundred dollars each, just for the privelage of fairly reviwing your product.

Think about it - there are a *lot* of pdf products out there now. Well over a hundred. Some of them with page counts well above 60 (last year there were a few with page counts of 100+). They aren't going to be able to print all of them out. You, on the other hand, as the profit-making publisher, are merely asked to print out 5-6 copies of your product. I think that's more than reasonable.

As a freshman upstart imprint focusing on electronic publishing, I have no problem with printing and mailing copies of my product(s) to judges for consideration. I figure if I want the recognition, I can choose to go the extra step. This would be quite similar to studios sending DVD and VHS copies of their films to members of the Academy for consideration.

 

[der_kluge]

other awards

I know how the Oscar awards work.

There is a known panel of judges (probably 100 or so) and every year, all those movies that believe they should be in the running for an oscar sends the judges (every one of them) a free copy of the movie.

Not being a DM right now, I can tell you that the only module I'm really familiar with from a D20 publisher is Interludes which was written by the company I work for. Is it good - heck yea, #1 on this site, but if I voted for it, it would be quite unfair since I haven't seen any others. Point being, judges can't make informed decisions unless they are familiar with every option.

I say pick a half a dozen judges (probably the admins from this site) and publish that list and include home addresses. Those publishers should feel free to send them free publications of things so that they are sure that they are reviewed.

Ah, but I'm leaving out an important step. The nominations. A publisher wouldn't have to send them something unless they were nominated in that category.

So, to recap - you pick 5 or 6 nominations per category. Publishers can send copies of those works that were nominated (if necessary) to the judges for further review.

 

[EricNoah]

Re: other awards

I know how the Oscar awards work.

There is a known panel of judges (probably 100 or so) and every year, all those movies that believe they should be in the running for an oscar sends the judges (every one of them) a free copy of the movie.

Not being a DM right now, I can tell you that the only module I'm really familiar with from a D20 publisher is Interludes which was written by the company I work for. Is it good - heck yea, #1 on this site, but if I voted for it, it would be quite unfair since I haven't seen any others. Point being, judges can't make informed decisions unless they are familiar with every option.

I say pick a half a dozen judges (probably the admins from this site) and publish that list and include home addresses. Those publishers should feel free to send them free publications of things so that they are sure that they are reviewed.

Ah, but I'm leaving out an important step. The nominations. A publisher wouldn't have to send them something unless they were nominated in that category.

So, to recap - you pick 5 or 6 nominations per category. Publishers can send copies of those works that were nominated (if necessary) to the judges for further review.

Well that's how we sort of did it last year -- except a) any publisher that wanted to be in a category sent their products in and b) they sent them to one specified address, and then they were packaged up and mailed off from there to the judges, and c) the judges narrowed the field from the works that had been submitted (the judges can't really pick the nominees until they get to see the product, right?).

 

[Glyfair]

Re: other awards

I know how the Oscar awards work.

There is a known panel of judges (probably 100 or so) and every year, all those movies that believe they should be in the running for an oscar sends the judges (every one of them) a free copy of the movie.

Apparently, you don't. At least not the majority of them.

Every member of the Academy who is in the category gets a ballot to make nominations. For example, only directors get to make a nomination for directors. A couple of categories have the nominees decided by committees (Foreign Film and Documentaries, for example). Then the entire membership of the Academy votes on who wins almost all the awards (I believe the technical awards are only voted on by members who qualify as a member of that trade). The Academy isn't that small a group either, I believe. I'm reasonably sure there are thousands of members.

Also note that the Oscars are effectively "trade awards." They are given out by the people who are up for them. If the publishers want to create their own award given out to the best products and publishers, that would be the equivalent of the Oscars.

Glyfair of Glamis