[ENnies] Categories

[HellHound]

Re: Re: [ENnies] Categories

Is this to allow PDFs to compete in more categories? If so, that's a noble goal, but the PDF publishers are likely to get spanked by the print publishers. Print publishers just sell way more of their product, which means more people are exposed to it, which means more people are likely to vote for it.

Very true. We all knew going in that Thee Compleat Librum ov Gar'Udok's Necromantic Artes had ZERO chance of winning an ENnie. We got nominated, but besides the judges, only 166 other people owned copies of it at the time.

Considering that Manual of the Planes was also nominated in that category, that's something like 166 to 40,000... And that's making hte gross assumption that SOME of the 166 prefered Gar'Udok of course.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Re: [ENnies] Categories

Very true. We all knew going in that Thee Compleat Librum ov Gar'Udok's Necromantic Artes had ZERO chance of winning an ENnie. We got nominated, but besides the judges, only 166 other people owned copies of it at the time.

Considering that Manual of the Planes was also nominated in that category, that's something like 166 to 40,000... And that's making hte gross assumption that SOME of the 166 prefered Gar'Udok of course.

yep. There's got to be some sort of compromise between those who want to include PDFs and those who want separate PDF categories. I agree with the idea that each product should be viewed only upon its merits, but i also agree with you and chriss about market presense/budget issues having an imbalancing effect.

joe b.

 

[HellHound]

But the fact is - the ENnie nomination itself is MORE than enough of an award, as a PDF publisher, in my opinion.

I was overjoyed to be nominated for two awards, and received honourable mention for a third.

OVER JOYED.

Darn near blown away.

The later WINNING of an award knocked the stuffing out of me. Anyone at the show certainly remembers me yammering at the mic for a painful minute of stunned Hound.

 

[Ashy]

How about a writer's choice award? You know, pull together about a dozen d20 freelancers who aren't fulltimers at any publisher and have them submit their list of the top 5 d20 products in each category. Collect the lists, and the products that get listed the most win a "Designer's Choice" award or something.

There really isn't an outlet for designers to recognize each other's work.

(No, the Origins Awards do NOT count.)

I'd be more than happy to step up and help organize this.

I like this idea!

 

[tensen]

- think there should be a PDF award, but NOT as the ENnies. Someone else with a vested interest in PDF sales and marketing, but who doesn't have products out should set this up - I'm looking at YOU James / RPGnow!

I think the indies awards might cover the PDF publishers. Although it would be nice to see a d20 PDF publishers.

Of course I'm not sure I'd like to see a comparison between whether a PDF is better than a print. They are different.

I would like to see a best PDF layout.. utilizing features of PDFs. And other things, that target the differences of the PDF medium, that aren't available in print.

 

[haiiro]

- No PDF-only category: I think this is a good thing -- no artificial evening of the playing field.

- WotC allowed to enter: as they should be.

- OGL-only products: I'm not familiar enough with the ENnies, the process, the categories or any of the OGL-only stuff to weigh in on this one.

- Judge's Choice award: I like the idea of having one such award, be it Judge's Choice, Writer's Choice, Honorable Mention, etc. I think having one in every category would dilute the significance of the "main" awards, and that isn't desirable IMO.

I don't envy the judges position -- having to make tough decisions about a slew of great products -- but in general I think keeping the awards open to all and preferential to none (i.e., not excluding WotC, not placing PDFs in a separate category) is the best option.

 

[Sebastian]

Re: Re: [ENnies] Categories

I'm all for a judges award. I fact, I could easily do without the popular vote, because it doesn't measure much except market penetration.

As a compromise, I think this proposal would work well:

Judges choice could be nice. Might consider doing two based on page count. Best product 96 pages or less and best product over 96 pages. That way smaller products would have a chance for recognition (this is a problem the Origins Awards sometimes has, with 32 page adventures competing against 300 page mega-adventures).

 

[2WS-Steve]

Re: OGL-only products

I think OGL only products should be allowed in. It'd be a real shame to keep Everquest and Mutants and Masterminds out when many of the people in this community would have a real interest in them. Moreover, someone is going to come up with an interesting alternative character construction system for use with d20 before too long and that should certainly qualify.

The only concern is that an OGL book that has nothing to do with d20 might make it in. That might not be a bad thing anyway. Even if it is problematic, it would still need to get past the judges and the popular vote. Regardless, we'll likely see an increasing number of d20 books that are less compatible with the d20 system than OGL-only books.

 

[Nikchick]

I'm still strongly in favor of the medal system of awards, especially with Wizards of the Coast in the mix. It works for judging wines, why not D20 prducts? There are so many D20 products to be considered, I'm not convinced there's any benefit to anyone to insist the ENnies must be an all-or-nothing award! In the same way that the coarse 1-5 rating system first introduced at d20reviews.com was adequate when the market was thinner and the quality of products more wide ranging, having one winner out of a small field is understandable. Now that the market is so dense and the number of good/great/excellent products grouped so closely together, I don't see where it hurts anyone to recognize that there could easily be three suburb products that are so minutely differentiated in terms of quality that they deserve recognition. Under the all-or-nothing system, you've got the winners on one hand and "everyone else" on the other. Just as D20reviews.com would benefit from a finer scale by which to judge and differentiate products in the current market, I think the ENnies would greatly benefit from a broader offering of awards.

I've been a member of the advisory committee for the Origins Awards for a couple of years now, and I have given a lot of careful consideration to many issues that come up in the awards process. My opinion on the ENnies is not just based on my preferences as a publisher and potential nominee, but also as a person with hands on experience in administrating similar awards. I know my opinion on this isn't shared by many, but I really, really, really hope to see this change come about anyway.

Here's hoping I'm not spitting into the wind,
Nicole

 

[Blacksad]

You should watch where you spit

Here's hoping I'm not spitting into the wind

Ouch! My eye!

No you're not spitting into the wind...

But personnaly, I would dislike a change based on input from anyone who speak as being more than a mere customer, most of the time, those changes won't make the ENnies better for me.

PS: and I think that it is important that Morrus favor the opinion of mere customer above the opinion of others in the industry.